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Just bought a Mark 2

jarodjohnson

I just bought an old Shopsmith Mark 2. I really had no idea what I was doing, but it was pretty cheap, and I figured for a drill press, table saw, and lathe, it seemed like a good deal.

It turns out, it didn't come with a lot of the parts it needs (like I said, I had no idea what I was doing). I'm trying to figure out what parts I need to get going, and if parts for the Mark V will fit on the Mark 2. It came with the drill chuck, table for the table saw, the tool rest for the lathe, and some lathe chisels.

I really just want to be able to use the table saw and start learning how to turn. I'm thinking I need an arbor for the table saw, a tailstock, faceplate and/or chuck, and a center for the lathe. Should that be enough to get me started, or am I missing something? Any other advice for someone starting out?

[deleted]

Welcome to the forum. If you post a picture of what you have the members will tell you what you will need. Many MarkV parts will indeed work/fit. Bob

jarodjohnson

Thanks Bob. Here are some pictures of what I've got

[attachment=3]$matches[2][/attachment]

JPG

The saw function will need an arbor and a blade and a miter gauge(Mark 5/V version will work).

The lathe function will need a spur drive center, a tail center and a Mark 5/V tailstock. The Mark tailstock mount may be in a box of parts(not easily recognized). It mounts on the aux table which I cannot tell if you have. I recommend the Mark 5/V tailstock regardless.

The drill function will require some evsporust to clean up the chuck.

Welcome here!

I do not know if/of a Mark 2 blade guard.

jarodjohnson

JPG wroteThe saw function will need an arbor and a blade and a miter gauge(Mark 5/V version will work).

The lathe function will need a spur drive center, a tail center and a Mark 5/V tailstock. The Mark tailstock mount may be in a box of parts(not easily recognized). It mounts on the aux table which I cannot tell if you have. I recommend the Mark 5/V tailstock regardless.

The drill function will require some evsporust to clean up the chuck.

Welcome here!

I do not know if/of a Mark 2 blade guard.

Thanks!

chapmanruss

Below is a picture of what the Mark 2 Tailstock looks like attached to the extension table with a lathe cup center. If you do not have it than you can use JPG's suggestion of the Mark 5/V tailstock. If you do get a Mark 5/V tailstock for it make sure you get all the needed parts - Tailstock, the adjustable center and stop collars.
[attachment=2]$matches[2][/attachment]
As JPG questioned about, the saw guard I believe it was an extra accessory like it was for some reason on the early Mark 5. I am not sure about the table size of the Mark 2 but the Mark 5/V 500 blade guard show below should work as long as the Mark 2 table is not deeper than the Mark 5/V 500 table of 8" from the arbor/blade center to the back edge of the table. This guard is a later Mark 5/V Guard for 10" blades not the 9" "Greenie" blade guard.
[attachment=1]$matches[2][/attachment]
One thing I noticed in your pictures was the belt guard. It looks like it may be a homemade replacement in which case it may be missing the speed chart label inside. This is the chart that should be there.

The standard 1-1/4" or 5/8" saw blade arbor will work on the Mark 2. You do not need to find the 5/8" saw blade arbor that came with it.

If you are curious about the Shopsmith Mark 2. It was made from 1958 to 1960 at Montgomery Ward’s request and sold primarily by them. It was not made to the same quality standards as the Mark V and was a lower cost alternative. It uses two 2-step pulleys to change the 7 speeds (much like the Model 10E and 10ER) and has lower quality locks to hold the headstock, carriage, etc. in place. It has an extra saw blade slot on the main table (a feature added to the Mark 5 in the 1960’s and 1970’s). Some have bench tubes while others have “C” channels to connect the bench ends together. It has a narrow step shape extension table that creates its own fence and serves as the tailstock with a small block attachment. The Mark V Headstock will fit on the Mark 2 frame. The Mark 2 can also hold and power SPT’s (Special Purpose Tools) made for the Mark 5/V's and Mark VII/7's.

505627 Upper and 505628 Lower Saw Blade Guards r.jpg

Speed Chart c.jpg

jarodjohnson

I couldn't find a Mark 2 tailstock to go on the extension table, so I just bought a Mark V tailstock. It looks like it comes with the center, but I'll have to check it for the stop collars.

Thank you for the speed chart! The manual said there to look inside the belt guard, but mine didn't come with one and I couldn't find one on Google.

chapmanruss

I have done some additional research on the Mark 2. First I bought one on Saturday and like most I have ever seen it is missing the belt cover. The Tailstock part for the extension is also missing but the person I purchased it from thinks he has it somewhere. On to what I have found. The Saw Blade Guard set I posted above will work on the Mark 2. The Lower Guard will require the extension to make it wider since the blade in it's original arbor (P/N 12 431) touches the outside edge of the guard. The 5/8" Universal arbor from the Model 10E & 10ER may work without the extension since the base is slightly shorter. The actual lower blade guard listed in an accessory catalog (2/15/58) has the same part number as the lower guard for the Model 10's. This guard does fit and can work with the Model 10's upper guard. The table has a threaded hole on the back side just like the Model 10's. The Upper Blade Guard (P/N 26 070) listed in the catalog has a different part number than any of the P/N's for the model 10's I have seen. The table of the Mark 2 is 16 3/4" front to back, not counting the fence rail, which is an 1 1/2" shorter than the Mark 5 but is slightly wider than the Mark 5's table. The Tables themselves look to be interchangeable but would have to be kept on their original posts. The Mark 2 has smooth posts, no teeth and locks like the Model 10's table. The Mark 2 is designed as an 8" Table Saw and the insert and extra saw blade cutout are shorter. The Mark 5 at the time was a 9" Table Saw. The Mark 2 can use the Mark 5 or V 500 Miter.

More to come later

jsburger

chapmanruss wroteI have done some additional research on the Mark 2. First I bought one on Saturday and like most I have ever seen it is missing the belt cover. The Tailstock part for the extension is also missing but the person I purchased it from thinks he has it somewhere. On to what I have found. The Saw Blade Guard set I posted above will work on the Mark 2. The Lower Guard will require the extension to make it wider since the blade in it's original arbor (P/N 12 431) touches the outside edge of the guard. The 5/8" Universal arbor from the Model 10E & 10ER may work without the extension since the base is slightly shorter. The actual lower blade guard listed in an accessory catalog (2/15/58) has the same part number as the lower guard for the Model 10's. This guard does fit and can work with the Model 10's upper guard. The table has a threaded hole on the back side just like the Model 10's. The Upper Blade Guard (P/N 26 070) listed in the catalog has a different part number than the any of the P/N's for the model 10's I have seen. The table of the Mark 2 is 16 3/4" front to back, not counting the fence rail, which is an 1 1/2" shorter than the Mark 5 but is slightly wider than the Mark 5's table. The Tables themselves look to be interchangeable but would have to be kept on their original posts. The Mark 2 has smooth posts, no teeth and locks like the Model 10's table. The Mark 2 is designed as an 8" Table Saw and the insert and extra saw blade cutout are shorter. The Mark 5 at the time was a 9" Table Saw. The Mark 2 can use the Mark 5 or V 500 Miter.

More to come later

The one or two pictures of the Model 10 lower guard I have ever seen looked like cast iron as I remember. Is the MK 2 lower guard the same? Also, why do you say it will work with the Model 10 upper guard? The upper guard does no interfere with anything under the table. :confused:

The Model 10 lower saw guard is the only thing (I think) that I don't have since I got the 4E Jointer motor pulley kit.

I have never seen a MK 2 for sale locally but if I find one with a lower saw guard should I buy it?

chapmanruss

John asked

The one or two pictures of the Model 10 lower guard I have ever seen looked like cast iron as I remember. Is the MK 2 lower guard the same? Also, why do you say it will work with the Model 10 upper guard? The upper guard does no interfere with anything under the table. :confused:

The Model 10 Lower Guard I have is cast Aluminum I believe. Cast Iron would be heavier for the mass in the guard. Interesting the only reference I have for the Model 10 Lower Blade Guard is the November 19, 1951 Part Number conversion table. There are no pictures or part drawings on that table. I have not seen it listed in a catalog until the February 15, 1958 accessory catalog for the Mark 5 and Mark 2. It does not have a picture or drawing of it there either. Below is the Model 10 Lower Blade Guard I have which would be part number 162-1X or 12 370.
[attachment=2]$matches[2][/attachment]
[attachment=1]$matches[2][/attachment]

I painted it but it was gray when I received it.

As for using the Model 10 Upper Saw Guard it works because there is a threaded hole just like the Model 10's have on the back edge of the table to attach the splitter to. Using the Lower Guard listed in the 1958 catalog, if it is the same Model 10 Lower Guard, requires an independently mounted upper guard. Again there in no picture or drawing of the upper guard in the catalog. The only guard shown is the set for the Mark 5 which is a 9" guard.

If anyone has a catalog or similar source picture of the Model 10 and/or the Mark 2 Lower Saw Guard it would be nice to see.

John,

As for buying a Mark 2 if you see one for sale with a lower guard it is up to you. I would be tempted to buy it if the price was alright. The one I just bought was $35 but there is another near here for sale for $350, Big difference! As best as I can tell it does not have a lower blade guard, belt guard or the tailstock block that attaches to the extension table. One or two a year come up for sale near me on craigslist and those are all common things I see missing on them.

162-1X - 12 370 R c.jpg

162-1X - 12 370 L c.jpg

162-1X - 12 370 I c.jpg

chapmanruss

While looking over the Mark 2 I noticed an interesting thing about what is the Headrest/Tie Bar which in the case of the Mark 2 is called Base and Tie. Something about it's design looks familiar.Does the Mark 7 come to mind? It looks like if you change the Base and Arm to the Base and Tie, move the Headrest end in 3-1/2" like the base end and cut off 3-1/2" from the Way Tubes you would have a Double Tilt Mark 2.

Mark 2 Headrest Assembly - Base and Tie r.jpg

JPG

chapmanruss wroteWhile looking over the Mark 2 I noticed an interesting thing about what is the Headrest/Tie Bar which in the case of the Mark 2 is called Base and Tie. Something about it's design looks familiar.Mark 2 Headrest Assembly - Base and Tie r.jpgDoes the Mark 7 come to mind? It looks like if you change the Base and Arm to the Base and Tie, move the Headrest end in 3-1/2" like the base end and cut off 3-1/2" from the Way Tubes you would have a Double Tilt Mark 2.

Assuming your dimensions are correct, yes. And the lack of pinion gear and rack on the table mounting posts also makes a possible under table rout/shaping, but there is still the speed inadequacy.

I do not know if reversing the table places the table cutout(insert hole) correctly.

Yes another precursor of Mark 7 and 5xx stuff.

chapmanruss

I did not try reversing the table to see where the center of the insert ends up in relation to the spindle. That will have to wait for another day.

amboyna

chapmanruss wrote
John asked

The one or two pictures of the Model 10 lower guard I have ever seen looked like cast iron as I remember. Is the MK 2 lower guard the same? Also, why do you say it will work with the Model 10 upper guard? The upper guard does no interfere with anything under the table. :confused:

The Model 10 Lower Guard I have is cast Aluminum I believe. Cast Iron would be heavier for the mass in the guard. Interesting the only reference I have for the Model 10 Lower Blade Guard is the November 19, 1951 Part Number conversion table. There are no pictures or part drawings on that table. I have not seen it listed in a catalog until the February 15, 1958 accessory catalog for the Mark 5 and Mark 2. It does not have a picture or drawing of it there either. Below is the Model 10 Lower Blade Guard I have which would be part number 162-1X or 12 370.

$matches[2]

$matches[2]

162-1X - 12 370 I c.jpg

I painted it but it was gray when I received it.

As for using the Model 10 Upper Saw Guard it works because there is a threaded hole just like the Model 10's have on the back edge of the table to attach the splitter to. Using the Lower Guard listed in the 1958 catalog, if it is the same Model 10 Lower Guard, requires an independently mounted upper guard. Again there in no picture or drawing of the upper guard in the catalog. The only guard shown is the set for the Mark 5 which is a 9" guard.

If anyone has a catalog or similar source picture of the Model 10 and/or the Mark 2 Lower Saw Guard it would be nice to see.

Wow. I just drooled on myself. The legendary lower saw guard for a 10E/ER.

I can only hope someday I might acquire one.

162-1X - 12 370 R c.jpg

chapmanruss

For historical purposes it is nice to have the Model 10 lower blade guard but as a practical part to use, it scores pretty low, just above not having anything there. A better Lower Blade Guard that fits the Model 10's is the one for the Mark 5/V shown below and in my earlier post in this thread. Using the Upper and Lower Guards (505627 & 505628) together reduces alignment time if you keep them attached to each other. I would use the 5/8" Arbor with the machined washer next to the base, then the blade, the wide spacer and lastly the nut (see 2nd pic below). This moves the blade closer to the quill and keeps it from hitting the far side of the lower guard. Although, for safety, I use the later Arbor with the keyed washer instead of the original Model 10 version shown without it. You can use just the Lower Blade Guard 505628 with the Model 10 Upper Guard. Either way you add dust collection to your Model 10. even though the Mark 5/V Guard set was made for a 10" blade stay with the 8" blade since that is what the Model 10 Table was designed to use.[attachment=1]$matches[2][/attachment]

ChrisNeilan

chapmanruss wroteFor historical purposes it is nice to have the Model 10 lower blade guard but as a practical part to use, it scores pretty low, just above not having anything there. A better Lower Blade Guard that fits the Model 10's is the one for the Mark 5/V shown below and in my earlier post in this thread. Using the Upper and Lower Guards (505627 & 505628) together reduces alignment time if you keep them attached to each other. I would use the 5/8" Arbor with the machined washer next to the base, then the blade, the wide spacer and lastly the nut (see 2nd pic below). This moves the blade closer to the quill and keeps it from hitting the far side of the lower guard. Although, for safety, I use the later Arbor with the keyed washer instead of the original Model 10 version shown without it. You can use just the Lower Blade Guard 505628 with the Model 10 Upper Guard. Either way you add dust collection to your Model 10. even though the Mark 5/V Guard set was made for a 10" blade stay with the 8" blade since that is what the Model 10 Table was designed to use.$matches[2]505628-10ER.jpg

Thanks for posting this. I never would have thought to try that, and I have an old set of guards collecting dust - and not sawdust!

jsburger

ChrisNeilan wrote
chapmanruss wroteFor historical purposes it is nice to have the Model 10 lower blade guard but as a practical part to use, it scores pretty low, just above not having anything there. A better Lower Blade Guard that fits the Model 10's is the one for the Mark 5/V shown below and in my earlier post in this thread. Using the Upper and Lower Guards (505627 & 505628) together reduces alignment time if you keep them attached to each other. I would use the 5/8" Arbor with the machined washer next to the base, then the blade, the wide spacer and lastly the nut (see 2nd pic below). This moves the blade closer to the quill and keeps it from hitting the far side of the lower guard. Although, for safety, I use the later Arbor with the keyed washer instead of the original Model 10 version shown without it. You can use just the Lower Blade Guard 505628 with the Model 10 Upper Guard. Either way you add dust collection to your Model 10. even though the Mark 5/V Guard set was made for a 10" blade stay with the 8" blade since that is what the Model 10 Table was designed to use.$matches[2]505628-10ER.jpg
Thanks for posting this. I never would have thought to try that, and I have an old set of guards collecting dust - and not sawdust!

I agree with you Chris but, given that the same company transitioned from the 10ER to the MK 5 it is not really surprising.

amboyna

Nice setup Russ. But the OCD in me says I still want the original Lower Saw Guard. I know, get in line, right?

chapmanruss

I understand, why do you think I have one.

amboyna

From post 252880 you said:

The Model 10 Lower Guard I have is cast Aluminum I believe.