Possible mark V prototype?

[Lunch2000]

So I inheritied my father's mark V , which he had gotten used from someone when I was a child. So far I have been successful in following the Mark V guides for the 500 to restore the head stock to functioning, however I'm still curious to the provenance of the machine since the serial number seems outside the range:

262665

It's def early magna and has the Franklin motor in it.

here is a photo of the tag:

SS_tag.jpg (250.37 KiB) Viewed 12589 times

If anyone knows something please share!

Lunch

[JPG]

Pix did not make it.

If a greenie, it is a Mark 5.

[DLB]

In December there was another thread seeking info on Greenie SN 262266, which Russ Chapman dated as March 1954:
https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/begi ... 23190.html
I think the same logic puts yours, 400 units later assuming sequential SN assignment, as also in March/April 1954. However, I'm going to admit here that I did not understand his logic and I assumed that he was relying on other information in his possession. The chart that many owners use on the SS web site gives a SN Range for 1954 of 263051 - 288540. That should indicate that M5's with SN starting with 262 were not built in 1954, and otherwise pretty much guarantees that the chart has a significant error or omission.

It is an early unit. Please note that there are two recent threads seeking owner information from people with early units. They are trying to determine the production break-in point of a change from Mark 5's with Gilmer belt but no clutch to those with a clutch.

Russ Chapman - Please help us out here.

-David

[rpd]

In December there was another thread seeking info on Greenie SN 262266, which Russ Chapman dated as March 1954:
https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/begi ... 23190.html
I think the same logic puts yours, 400 units later assuming sequential SN assignment, as also in March/April 1954. However, I'm going to admit here that I did not understand his logic and I assumed that he was relying on other information in his possession. The chart that many owners use on the SS web site gives a SN Range for 1954 of 263051 - 288540. That should indicate that M5's with SN starting with 262 were not built in 1954, and otherwise pretty much guarantees that the chart has a significant error or omission.

It is an early unit. Please note that there are two recent threads seeking owner information from people with early units. They are trying to determine the production break-in point of a change from Mark 5's with Gilmer belt but no clutch to those with a clutch.

Russ Chapman - Please help us out here.

-David

I would suspect that the Date chart is in error.
Note that this unit was made by Magna Engineering, which was purchased by Yuba, which was purchased by Magna American, who discontinued the Shopsmith line, and then after several years Shopsmith inc purchased the rights and revived the line. Lots of opportunity for records to be lost.
Magna Engineering was still making 10ER's in 1953 prior to the release of the Mark 5.

[chapmanruss]

Okay guys, lets sort this out. The Serial Numbers by month chart that was previously available on the Shopsmith website listed S/N 263051 as the first number for April 1954. That chart was incomplete having many month left blank and no record for 1962 until the Mark 5 went out of production in 1964. The records are incomplete from the time Shopsmith Inc. formed in 1972 through 1977. We know that the Mark 5 was introduced and for sale in March of 1954. There were Mark 5's made before April to be ready for the March introduction date. That is where serial numbers before 263051 come in. I have seen serial numbers as low as 260407. Currently the Shopsmith website only shows serial numbers by year from those old records.

Also it is important to remember that the Shopsmith website isn't always correct in their own history. The first paragraph from their history page reads

Shopsmith Mark V/Mark 7 Tool History

Mark V (Model 500) Magna America put this American classic 5-in-1 tool into production in 1953. Since its introduction the Mark V has gone through a series of important upgrades to improve its performance, working convenience and safety.

But it should read more like this

Shopsmith Mark V Model 500 -- An American Classic Since 1953
Mark 5 (now known as Mark V Model 500)
Magna Engineering Corporation put this American classic 5-in-1 tool into production in late 1953. Since its introduction in March 1954 the Mark 5 has gone through a series of important upgrades to improve its performance, working convenience and safety.

Magna Engineering Corporation not Magna America was the company name at the time the Mark 5 was introduced. Also it was Magna American not Magna America that took over production after Yuba Power Products. Originally it was the Mark 5, changed to Mark V on the machine itself in 1980 and a Mark V 500 was not herd of until the introduction of the Mark V 510 and 505. As a final note from the history page notice the year in this quote - American classic 5-in-1 tool into production in 1953. Production of the Model 10ER ended in 1953 as production started on the Mark 5.

[chapmanruss]

Since someone is bound to ask, here is the Serial Number by month chart for the Mark 5/V. This is the one I did estimating serial numbers for the missing months. The second one is the one I did for the missing years again estimating the missing data. Remember these are only estimations based on production changes by months and other data gathered. I know they are not totally correct as I have the date estimated for JPG's Goldie being made a few months before he purchased it. The serial numbers for the early Shopsmith Inc, years are simply entered as an average of machines made divided by total months starting with their first serial number of SS1001. These can be off by several months. If we had more information as to when Shopsmith Inc. Mark 5's were originally purchased (S/N and date) it could be adjusted.

Mark V Serial Numbers.pdf

(121.78 KiB) Downloaded 1144 times

Mark V Serial Numbers - The Lost Numbers.pdf

(99.56 KiB) Downloaded 1094 times

[DLB]

I thought as long as Russ included this table I would see what month my 1956 Greenie was made. The answer, evidently, is that I probably have a 1957 Greenie.

My Greenie is SN 339379. The website data puts this in the heart of 1956 production, but the Mark V Serial Numbers PDF table show it as an early 1957 unit. Mine is one of about 9,000 units that the website table shows as 1956 production that in this PDF table are part of 1957 production. That is not a small number, 1957 production per website is 5,501 units, but 14,359 per this table; and neither the starting nor ending SNs are in agreement.

This is one example of several differences. From start of production in 1953 through 1958, this table agrees with the website table for only 1954 and 1955. And for the reasons contained in this thread, we know that means both are incomplete for 1954. On the positive side, we have at least two new forum members that joined recently due to the errors in the table.

-David

[chapmanruss]

Keep in mind that when looking at the table for Mark 5 & V Serial Numbers the entries in red are estimated using a number of factors and not actual production dates by serial numbers. There were no numbers from March of 1956 through June of 1957 along with other missing serial numbers in months. It is possible that a Mark 5 actually made in December 1956 may be showing up on my estimates as January 1957 or vice versa. The longer the gap in missing information by month the more of a chance the information I estimated could be off by a month maybe two.

The chart on the SS website by years did not estimate any missing numbers but simply used what the chart by month had and went to the next available serial number.

[STB]

Since someone is bound to ask, here is the Serial Number by month chart for the Mark 5/V. Mark V Serial Numbers.pdf

Mark V Serial Numbers - The Lost Numbers.pdf

Thanks or posting the chart. Out of curiosity I checked the Mk5 I had converted into a dedicated drill press SN 324969 Magna Power Tool. https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/view ... 78#p165378 From the chart it appears to be Mfg June 1956. As a note it has a Gilmer belt with no clutch.

[DLB]

Russ - I'd like to confirm what I think I'm understanding. It appears that when SS created the current chart on the website they took this 'unknown' block from March 1956 through June 1957 and put that entire serial number sequence into 1956. So in essence, what the website table shows as 1956 production is actually 1956 through end on June 1957 (1.5 years) and what it shows as 1957 is actually only July 1957 through end of 1957 (0.5 years). (?)

Note - Mine, like STB's, is Magna Power Tool Corp. I did not confirm clutch presence because it is a B headstock and, I think, outside the range you are requesting info on.

-David