need electrical part

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:46 am

I am curious what he means by 'steel brass'.

I would think all brass would be adequate. and easier to machine.

I do not understand why aluminum would be so $$$.

Danimal713 · Post by **Danimal713** » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:43 pm

JPG- I spoke with Kirk today. By brass, he was referring to a process that metal was printed using CA glue, then baked and an infusion process done that puts brass into the mix somehow. The aluminum is done same as the plastic but there is a vacuum process involved and why it is so expensive. So the bottom line for the CAM part. He has not yet perfected a good reliable part. His 3D printing process does not produce a durable part. I originally found the CAM on a site during a search
https://www.shapeways.com/
https://www.shapeways.com/product/ENZED ... arketplace
He said this can be ordered and in a drop down the material may be selected. With S&H, it should be around $35. So if anyone needs one for repair to get a VII going, this should work to get a part and seems quite reasonable. He is working on a CNC version but finishing other projects. he could also do out of aluminum, but unless it was a harder aluminum alloy (like aircraft material), I would stick with plastic IMHO. I did send him pictures of the gear track and he will try to get me a proto-type in next couple weeks. I know there are VII owners out there that have broken tracks. He feels he can print these in his 3D printer. He also sells SSmith couplers on EBAY that I have purchased and like very much. He has made those from ABS and as long as the shafts are aligned, they have done well. I am also working with him to get some SuperSHop parts printed that that community needs- but that is a different tool/forum. But having purchased other products from him and like them and his service I trust him. He sent me a whole bag of proto-type parts to try on the SuperShop- that did not work out, but is a good starting point to get the ones we really need.
UPDATE. I tore the VII headstock apart today. I have new bearings on the upper drive spindle and will replace quill bearing this weekend. I need to extract the bearings from the eccentric to measure and see if I have some or order the correct ones. The poly belt is in great shape as are the motor bearings so not much more will need to be done to get it back operational. Oh and the impeller has no keyway. It is all there and does move air but not sure I am going to reattach it because it robs power from motor. I have a cyclone collector with a 2HP motor that works so well, today I was drilling some short wooden legs for wife's project and just for a moment, let go and it sucked it into the 2 1/2" hose. I shut the blast gate immediately and pulled the hose before it got to the 4" and it was there- WHEW! It has also sucked up a SSmith tool coupler that stayed there for about 2-3 years until I needed to pull that pipe and found it at a bend. I have a line on a 220VAC 3HP collector motor with 17" impeller housing and am rethinking- do I really need more airflow??? But then I was Dan-the-Toolman long before Tim-the-Toolman even existed. :+O LOL
I'll post some pictures in a near-future post of the headstock rebuild. BTW JPG, I owe you breakfast or lunch on a future visit to Lexington. The rebuild thread saved me some headaches by great description and pictures. I had zero problems getting the speed control apart. The rest is close enough to the Mark V to be no problem.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:47 pm

Glad to have been a help.

Bearing 35mm od 11mm thick 5/8" id.

I have printed gear track but the jury is still out.

$35 for a printed plastic cam?

Danimal713 · Post by **Danimal713** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:21 pm

Yep to the printed CAM for around $35- from Shapeways.
I have continued to work on the VII as I found time. I painted the headstock housing and cover with Rustoleum Textured Dark Pewter.
I have new bearings in the quill and on upper drive shaft and a new motor drive belt in the housing. I do not stock the bearings for the VII eccentric so will order 2. The poly belt was in good condition but geting a bit hard. I put it in a freezer bag with a bunch of silicon spray and left it to sit about 8 hours. When I pulled it out, there was no liquid left in bag- the belt had absorbed it all and was more flexible and looked better.
The base looks worn so eventually I will pull it apart and paint as well. It is a fun project. I am also making good progress on the wife's craft cabinet so should soon have more time to get back to mine.
I also had Kirk send me a picture of the gear track part he printed. The original track is 2 15" sections. His printer can print 15" parts but it is more efficient and a better quality if he does it in 1/2- so would mean 4 7.5" sections for a full VII track. I'll keep everyone posted how it goes. I need to send him a SuperShop part as a pattern to replicate but the parts I have purchased from him in the past I am quite happy with.

rjent · Post by **rjent** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:52 pm

I purchased a cam from Shapeways just recently (found a link to the source elsewhere). It looks very good, the surface is rough (like a 3d printer usually does) but I don't think that will matter. I will definitely get the rack when available. My Mark VII is in like new shape with no foreseeable issues, but I do want to have spares of these for backup (as well as motor/electrical parts).

Thanks Danimal713 for following up on this!

Any chance you could get him to (or us collectively) make a new switch? Like I said, don't need one, but you never know

If I was younger, I would be getting this version of SS back into production. It is that good!

Danimal713 · Post by **Danimal713** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:06 am

So I have been playing with the VII headstock and it now has new bearings (motor and control sheave bearings were very good so did not need replacement) where needed and a new D&D Power 29 1/2" belt. It still drops off speed just past jointer speed. The belt starts flapping also so suspect the sheaves are too far apart and makes the belt slip at higher speeds. It is also not centered toward the edges on low or high speed. With a Mark V, if I want/need to change speed range, I can start at different teeth.

Is there a way to change where the speed range starts on a Mark VII?

Added explanation- for a V, to allow speed higher, start closer to the inside of the quadrant- I usually start around 10-12 tooth. I also usually set the speed range so it goes as slow as possible - for drilling and lathe work- especially if working on a client's headstock and know they use SSmith for turning. It does not knock low speed down much but it does make a noticeable difference.

With the CAM I am not sure if where is starts can be easily adjusted. Since others (JPG) have messed more with these I am trying to shorten my learning curve. I am in middle of several other things and this is inserting itself and sucking time I would rather not spend. Having 3 SuperShops (and just agreed to buy a 4th and sell one I have) that are similar to the VIIs for lack of parts, I am lacking time to spend tinkering. I read with interest JPG's account of the belt length dilemma (and some of Bill Mayo's- we sure do miss that boy! I just had a similar situation with SSmith belt sander not pulling tension on upper idler drum. All moved fine until tension applied then it would need help getting to tension. The spring axle in the drum is worn. SSmith only sells the whole assembly to the tune of $111 (plus the usual S&H & tax!). I did 2 of these oin older sanders for a client. To test I finally pulled the part from one of my working belt sanders and put into his- WALLA_ fixed. I can get a sander apart in under 5 minutes now. :+O

I am not sure about a switch. If it can be printed I bet he can do it. He did say he likes to special in niche parts no one else wants to mess with due to low volume demand. Does anyone have a switch they could send as a pattern- to be returned after of course? I am going to send him a drive hub from a Smithy SuperShop to duplicate and also modify to fit the different spline of the Fox SuperShop- Smithy has 8 splines and Fox has 10 and spindle also might be different diameter. With a few tries, he can make stuff using original as a pattern. I am not sure how difficult a switch would be. He is quite reasonable for pricing. As an example, he sells a real short coupler for $15
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Coupler- ... SwXYtYuq8D
I have 2 of these and once the headstock and tool are aligned properly it works great. This is very important because if out of line, it will make wear quickly.

If I cannot get the speed problem fixed easily, I might be interested in selling the entire headstock or possibly the entire VII. I have way too many machines in my shop. Since retooling going to the SuperShops as main machines, I am selling the Sammy Sosa double length lathe, a standalone drill press, eventually a complete 510, A WoodMaster 6" jointer that is compatible with Shopsmith or SuperShop (replaced with 8" Jet), and I have about 10 extra headstocks and way too many M500 tables-carriages-fences and enough base parts to make 7-8 minis. I like the VII base able to flip both ways and a Mark V headstock fits by removing the gear track.
So we will see where this ends up but I am going to wait for some expertise advise from people who have played with the VII speed control. This is an interesting switch because I am usually the one giving advise not asking. But we learn new stuff everyday if we are growing. Thanks in advance for the sharing. DTM

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:53 am

I do not understand how thee altered the speed range on a M5.

Altering the dial indication, yes but other than the high speed stop, no.

The MVII also is only adjustable by way of the high speed stop.

The closing of the sheaves creates a hard stop.(either one)(either model)

Excessive opening of a sheave creates a potential belt jam.

Why 29 1/2" belt? I may still be confused re M5 belt size. I thought 26 1/2 was correct. That would make MVII a 30 1/2". The mark VII belt floppyness is a known problem. Nylon gear racks have been damaged by that.

lahola1 · Post by **lahola1** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:49 pm

"So I have been playing with the VII headstock and it now has new bearings (motor and control sheave bearings were very good so did not need replacement) where needed and a new D&D Power 29 1/2" belt. It still drops off speed just past jointer speed. "

danimal, i don't understand what you mean by "it still drops off speed just past jointer speed".
do you mean when you go faster than jointer it slows down?
make sure the motor sheave is very close (approx 1/16" from the face of motor.)

JPG, i think this is where the 29.5" comes from.
https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/main ... 13906.html.; plus, i can't find my notes but think my original belt ( i'm still using it) measured 29.75" (slightly stretched?).
attached pics of my cam at slow and fast speed.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:13 pm

Oh THAT!

I have not yet tried the oem belt.

It is a mystery WHY it is an inch shorter than the M5 length + 4" due to the 2" pulley separation. I have to assume the belt rides more inside the pulleys than the M5. Since yours is the same, 29.5 gotta be correct for whatever reason.

Danimal713 · Post by **Danimal713** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:42 am

@laloha1
danimal, i don't understand what you mean by "it still drops off speed just past jointer speed".
do you mean when you go faster than jointer it slows down?
make sure the motor sheave is very close (approx 1/16" from the face of motor.)

The speed drops off after the jointer speed is reached and yes it slows down. Also that is where belt flap increases- and yes I see it come close to the gear track so maybe a shield is in order but getting it working properly s first if I intent to keep it.

@JPG- I found I can "adjust" the speed range on the V by where I start the teeth when putting them back together. If I start closer to the 9th tooth (set on high to be able to get the belt back on), it allows a slower low speed. There is not much adjustment with this but is does make a noticable difference on slow. Then setting the dial and high speed stop accordingly. It allows a slower speed possible. Most people use slow speeds much more than high. The only time I ever go about saw is if I am shaping with the speed increaser and when I had a SSmith mounted planer (have ProPlaner now on its own stand with a BA 1 3/4 HP motor).
I based the 29.5" belt on conversations from the past in the forum. JPG and even Mr Mayo (RIP Mon!) seemed to settle on the 29.5" as correct or at least best length. A minimum of 1/2" width is required as well. Finding one around 9/16" I think it not going to happen.

So based on what I can do with the V, I was wondering if I can force the cam to start in a different spot to keep the sheaves closer together at high speed so the belt doesn't slip and speed drop off. That is what appears to be happening. I really would like to get this headstock working properly. The belt range on low is also too low into the control sheave to start. This also makes me think the problem is a distance between sheaves problems. If I can get belt out to 1/8-1/16" from edge of control sheave to start, it will be closer during high speed and the belt should not then slip causing the speed drop off above jointer speed. If I get time today, I will play more with it, but am still working on the wife's craft cabinet for her new lair (my old office prior to getting retired).
Here are some pics of progress so far. Headstock in new paint and cleaned up front and rear and VII in current state with VII and V carriages - VII carriage has V table with tubes turned 180 and V carriage has slot cut to clear gear track. The ends and base still need cleaning/fresh paint. I probably will not install the dust collector. it is all there but not very effective compared to what I already have. I have a 2HP on a cyclone collector I built. It sucked up a wooden leg from the drill press I was drilling and let go for just a moment. Fortunately it stopped at the blast gate. I may not need the 3 HP upgrade I am considering. :+D