grauenwolf wrote:Lately I've just been doing things in drill-press mode. The setup is longer, but at least its accurate.
probably a dumb question, but:
what would happen if you left the SS in lathe mode but swung it up to vertical for the drilling?
depending on which sub-unit is sagging on you, this could make it better or much worse.
if you try this with a thin drill bit, you might want to be extra careful to use a face shield in case it makes it much worse (I know I'd probably have my face down there trying to watch as the scrap piece makes contact with the drill bit even though I know first hand the fracture risk).
Ivan
Mark V (84) w/ jigsaw, belt sander, strip sander
ER10 awaiting restoration
I have attempted to employ at least part of Ed's test method.
I have put my tail stock in and tighten the handle. I have mounted a dead center (and then a live center) then using my digital angle gauge I zeroed the setup.
A small amount of pressure applied to either of the vertical surfaces of the tail stock results in appreciable lateral movement. The digital angle gauge indicates a movement of .1 to .2 degrees....... More movement than I would have expected.
In the lathe mode, I don't believe this would cause a problem because once setup pressure on the tail stock would be constant and there would be no lateral movement. However, this may indicate that the tail stock is really not suited for use during precision horizontal drilling as described in this thread.
Anxiously awaiting the feed back on this last statement.
"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
From the numbers you have given and a little math if the tip of the drill is 10" from the tail stock that would give you a movement of .0349 or very nearly 1/32" for .2 deg and well half that at .1 degree. This was with pressure on your part Dusty? If so then under pressure the whole system will tip back some amount, perhaps way more then what you saw at first.
I think maybe you are right on this Dusty, to much rides on things not moving and it would appear they are moving.
I guess if you really want to do this you need to pre load the tail stock with say a 2x4 between it and the power head, or at least that is a thought.
Ed
dusty wrote:I have attempted to employ at least part of Ed's test method.
I have put my tail stock in and tighten the handle. I have mounted a dead center (and then a live center) then using my digital angle gauge I zeroed the setup.
A small amount of pressure applied to either of the vertical surfaces of the tail stock results in appreciable lateral movement. The digital angle gauge indicates a movement of .1 to .2 degrees....... More movement than I would have expected.
In the lathe mode, I don't believe this would cause a problem because once setup pressure on the tail stock would be constant and there would be no lateral movement. However, this may indicate that the tail stock is really not suited for use during precision horizontal drilling as described in this thread.
Anxiously awaiting the feed back on this last statement.
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
Maybe I missed something but what are you using to hold the work in? I have two 4-jaw chucks and neither of them is accurate enough to hold work (pen blanks) for precision drilling.
If I understand what you are saying then this might be the problem.
If you were using a metal lathe for drilling and wanted the most accurate hole you would have to use a 4-jaw chuck with independent jaws and adjust the work piece using a dial indicator.
If the work piece is off just a few thousandths the error will be twice what it is off. If it isn't centered exactly in the chuck jaws, as the bit enters it will be off center but will seek the center the further into the work piece it travels but the entry point will not be centered making it larger. Most drill bits flex, smaller bits flex more.
Not sure this is your problem but hope it might help.
I found each of my Mark V's tailstocks can deflect a tad under hand pressure.
The tailstock pipes fit into the 2 honed cylinders pretty snug, but definitely not a force-fit. I started trying some paper shims. There was no way to wrap each pipe with paper and still fit the tailstock in the holes. I finally reduced down to 1/2-circumference of 1 of the 2 pipes. This fit OK and was testing significantly stiffer when I pressed the tailstock along the drilling axis.
I found each of my Mark V's tailstocks can deflect a tad under hand pressure.
The tailstock pipes fit into the 2 honed cylinders pretty snug, but definitely not a force-fit. I started trying some paper shims. There was no way to wrap each pipe with paper and still fit the tailstock in the holes. I finally reduced down to 1/2-circumference of 1 of the 2 pipes. This fit OK and was testing significantly stiffer when I pressed the tailstock along the drilling axis.
Good luck!
I think the task of securing the tubes to provide the required about of stability required is futile. However, have you thought about using some of the small feelers from a set of HF feeler gauges. I say HF because theirs are relatively in expensive. I don't think you would have to wedge both legs.
Once in place, you may need some mechanical assistance to get the tail stock removed. Fortunately, the tail stock design lends itself to using some sort of lever to free it from the Mark V.
"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Taking what I've learned this week I have yet another idea. What about using a coin as a quoin? OK stop laughing! My idea would be to place say a dime between the base arm (away from rest of the shopsmith, facing out), and the tube collar, one on each side. You might have to adjust the height of the tube collar but the quoin effect of the coin should help.
Again if it were not so cold in the shop I'd test this myself... honest.
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
I do not know why no one else has brought this up and keep trying to solve this simple problem doing it the difficult way, even using mathmatical formulas to try and figure it out. Here is the easy way. Why not do what several of us other pen makers do and use the Shopsmith in drill press mode to drill your pen blanks?
You are in fact doing it the hard way. Attaching a slender, unsupported piece of wood to the headstock and hoping it centers perfectly, while its spinning, to a drill bit attached to the tail stock is not the best way to drill out pen blanks. Just the spinning of the blank will prevent it from being centered due to the stress on the blank. The deeper you drill the hole, the wider the entrance of that hole will be because of the stress put on such a small piece of wood. Even if your tailstock is lined up perfectly, it still is a difficult way of drilling a pen blank and you will probably end up with the same problem.
The faster, and easier, method (used by thousands of us pen makers) is to use a drill press with the pen blank mounted straight and level in a drill press clamp. Unless you are making long solid pens, you should also be cutting the blanks in half to their proper lengths before drilling them.
If you haven't before, maybe it might be a good idea to go online and read about pen making basics. Unless you are trying to do it some way that is unique, and more difficult, than the rest of us pen makers.
Using the lathe to drill the holes won't make the pens worth anymore than if you use a drill press. And if you are using a Shopsmith like you say you are, you already have one of the best, if not the best, woodworking drill presses sold on the market today to use any time you want.
Try drilling your blanks in the drill press mode. Once you do, you won't go back to drilling on the lathe.
