Blade/table alignment issues

[dusty]

FWIW, a Mark 5/V 500 stop ring is 3/8" wide.

You are describing making the table/miter slot parallel to the blade(nothing to do with cross cutting angle).

So with a typical 500 stop ring (rubber bumper) installed, the quill fully retracted, the carriage firm against the rubber bumper and the rubber bumper firm against the headstock where within the table cutout will the blade be (assuming a 500 arbor is being used?

If it is not near centered in the opening, will loosening the trunnion bolts and pushing the table hard to either the left or right reposition it there?

[garys]

John is right. The table spacer gets the blade close to the center of the blade slot, but it has nothing to do with whether the table is properly aligned to the blade or whether you will get a square cross cut.

But (and this is counter-intuitive and most woodworkers don't know this), the table being properly aligned to the slot has nothing to do with whether a cross cut is square! An unaligned table will result in a wider kerf and possibly burning and, in really bad misalignment, kickback. But an unaligned table will not cause the miter gauge to cut at an angle. If the miter gauge head is 90 degrees to the miter slot, you'll get a square cut even if the table is misaligned to the blade.

Here is your answer. The position of the blade in the slot means nothing as long as the blade doesn't hit the insert. Simply align the table to be square with the blade and start cutting.

[dusty]

John is right. The table spacer gets the blade close to the center of the blade slot, but it has nothing to do with whether the table is properly aligned to the blade or whether you will get a square cross cut.

But (and this is counter-intuitive and most woodworkers don't know this), the table being properly aligned to the slot has nothing to do with whether a cross cut is square! An unaligned table will result in a wider kerf and possibly burning and, in really bad misalignment, kickback. But an unaligned table will not cause the miter gauge to cut at an angle. If the miter gauge head is 90 degrees to the miter slot, you'll get a square cut even if the table is misaligned to the blade.

Here is your answer. The position of the blade in the slot means nothing as long as the blade doesn't hit the insert. Simply align the table to be square with the blade and start cutting.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement (highlighted). The position of the blade in a properly assembled and aligned Mark should be "near" the center of the cutout. If it is not - standard assembly/setup does not exist. If this was not done deliberately I suggest being very cautious about using it that way without knowing why.

[garys]

Disagree all you want, but I left the thin 500 spacer on my 510 instead of the wide 510 spacer to get additional fine adjustment when setting up for cuts. I find it easier to tweak the table slightly than to tweak the fence for the cuts. There is no functional reason that the blades needs to be centered. It works equally well wherever you set it.

[dusty]

Disagree all you want, but I left the thin 500 spacer on my 510 instead of the wide 510 spacer to get additional fine adjustment when setting up for cuts. I find it easier to tweak the table slightly than to tweak the fence for the cuts. There is no functional reason that the blades needs to be centered. It works equally well wherever you set it.

First and most impotyantly, my apologies to tbolish. I did not mean to completely derail this thread which I have done.

I obviously failed to communicate my point to garys. I intended to establish an alert to something possibly having been done improperly.

The closing statement in myprevous post: "If this was not done deliberately I suggest being very cautious about using it that way without knowing why".

Now, to further derail - I don't understand why using the narrow rubber ring provides for finer alignment but that is okay, I don't need to understand. Maybe you should consider removing the rubber ring completely . If you do that, you can get the blade really close to the left side of the insert.

Yes, I read that you find it easier to tweak the table than the fence. I still don't understand.

[garys]

Removing the ring completely would allow the metal of the table mount to hit against the metal of the headstock. To me, that seems like a bad idea as it could cause paint chipping or other damage. Either rubber ring in that position prevents that.

[edflorence]

Interesting discussion and to continue down the derailed path which has nothing to do with alignment, I just wanted to add that my old 1954 carriage has a slot-headed bolt threaded into it on the headstock side. The bolt acts as a stop or distance setting device to separate the carriage and the headstock. By adjusting the exposed length of the bolt, it is easy to have the saw blade center itself in the slot. I tried a rubber bumper years ago but decided I liked the bolt better. Granted, you do have to remember to be careful pushing the headstock and carriage together, but in all these years no damage to either has resulted from this system.
I imagine it would be easy to retrofit a newer carriage with this and do away with the varying size rubber spacers.

[algale]

Interesting discussion and to continue down the derailed path which has nothing to do with alignment, I just wanted to add that my old 1954 carriage has a slot-headed bolt threaded into it on the headstock side. The bolt acts as a stop or distance setting device to separate the carriage and the headstock. By adjusting the exposed length of the bolt, it is easy to have the saw blade center itself in the slot. I tried a rubber bumper years ago but decided I liked the bolt better. Granted, you do have to remember to be careful pushing the headstock and carriage together, but in all these years no damage to either has resulted from this system.
I imagine it would be easy to retrofit a newer carriage with this and do away with the varying size rubber spacers.

Great idea!

[tbolish]

Interesting direction this thread went! Thanks for the advice and thought provocation.

As for my arbor, what’s the benefit from using the newer ones for 510’s/520’s?

Admittedly I’m a terrible woodworker. But I’m trying to improve my accuracy, and keeping things exact and square have always been a challenge for me. So thanks for the tips, and anything else you guys think I should work on would be helpful..


Someday soon hopefully SS will send me the Incra miter gauge I ordered a couple months ago, as I’m hoping that will help a bit.


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[rpd]

With the 510/520 arbor, the blade would fit in the lower saw guard.