Veneer help requested

[jjbraun50]

I have been tasked to replace a veneer top on a game table. My first attempt, using red oak veneer and contact cement didn’t go well. My second attempt, after scraping and sanding the previous attempt off the MDF was to use the same veneer and wood glue. That was better, in that it made minor adjustments easier, but after the glue dried, there were ridges were the glue had evidently soaked into the grain a bit more than at other places, thus expanding the veneer. My question is: how do I smooth out the top? Do I pull the 2nd veneer off, sand it again and redo it with a different glue? Do I try sanding it smooth, hoping that the additional sanding won’t work its way completely through the veneer? Do I spread a thin layer of wood filler over the whole top, filling in the valleys between the ridges and then sanding it smooth?

This is my first and probably last attempt at veneer work, but I do want it to look fairly good when I return it to the “customer”.

[a1gutterman]

[quote="jjbraun50"]I have been tasked to replace a veneer top on a game table. My first attempt, using red oak veneer and contact cement didn&#8217]HI,
What went wrong when you tried the contact cement? Maybe this information is already known to you, but at the risk of that, here is what I do when attaching laminate for countertops: After you coat both surfaces with the glue, and after it has "dried", lay some flat strips of plastic, metal or wood on top of the table (I use the strips from old blinds), so that no part of the veneer will touch it when you position it on the table. As you slowly remove each strip, starting from the middle and working out to each side, or starting at one side and working toward the opposite side, use a laminate roller to ensure good contact and reduce the "bubbles". When you remove the first strip (just slide it out) start pressing down with the roller in the center of where that strip was, working the veneer down to the table, and work the roller out to the edge. Then take out another strip and repeat. Just make sure to use a roller, and work the air pockets out from the middle to the edges.

[jjbraun50]

First off, I didn't have the proper tools (i.e., roller) when I did the contact cement thing. I also don't think I had the cement evenly distributed, which made it harder to determine what was dry and what was not. Bottom line - what you're suggesting I do is to start over and use proper tools and contact cement?

[a1gutterman]

First off, I didn't have the proper tools (i.e., roller) when I did the contact cement thing. I also don't think I had the cement evenly distributed, which made it harder to determine what was dry and what was not. Bottom line - what you're suggesting I do is to start over and use proper tools and contact cement?

Well, what I was really trying to do was find out how your contact cement effort went wrong, and expain how I wood do it. If the ridges are knot too high, you may be able to sand them down. I am sure that I wood try that, or something else, before I gave up and started over.

[dusty]

Without being able to see and touch the surface that now needs to be repaired, it is very hard to make valid suggestions.

Having said that, I seriously doubt that you can effectively peel the veneer off. Your best bet is to basically start all over. Prep the table top by sanding it smooth. Yes, you will most probably sand through the veneer. You may even sand back down to the MDF. Once you have the surface smooth and flat, it is time to put on that "new sheet of veneer".

Tim has given you a pretty good step by step procedure for reattaching the veneer.

I would apply the contact cement (to both surfaces) with a roller. You can get one at any good paint store or hardware store.

Rubber cement is dry (ready for the veneer) when you touch it and it does not feel sticky when you pull your finger away.

BTW Many of us have done what you have described. Veneering, as you will soon learn, is really easy but the correct process is not intuitive. You will have learned a good lesson once this is done.

[reible]

I was thinking you might try using a flat iron like ones used on clothes. Every woodworker should own there own... my wife would kill me if I used hers.

Anyway a lightly dampened cloth over the veneer and the heat of the iron might just let the glue move enough to flatten. Some of the results will depend on what glue you used and how long ago you did it. Just keep moving so you don't scorch the wood. It will require sanding after as the water will have raised the grain a bit... I'd say it was worth a try before removing it and starting over.

Yes get yourself a roller!

I haven't done any veneer work in years but as I recall they were just starting to see a contact cement that changed color as it dried going from a creamy yellow to clear. I think I might have done a couple projects using it but I don' think I have the can any more. Perhaps some one currently working on this sort of thing will post... it has been years since I've been active or current on the subject.

Ed

[bobgroh]

Just replied to your post on SSusers forum also. I agree with the previous posts here - sand down the stuff you have on now so you have a flat surface again, use contact cement only, use a roller to apply the contact cement, make sure it is DRY to the touch, use separators (dowels, etc) to hold the veneer and the top apart and remove them as you work outward on the table (as described in a previous post), use a roller (I've used my wife's baking roller) to make sure the veneer is on solid and well, trim with a router (don't try to make the precut veneer fit exactly!), etc.

There are also techniques for handling small bubbles, etc that might be left (e.g. prick them with a needle and use a hot iron to re-attach them).

Good luck!

[flyslinger]

jjbraun50

You can also get veneer w/a paper backer on it instead of using flitch, just remember the its not as thick as flitch and you can sand through easier and you can (after its dry) roll the veneer up if it a bigger piece and if you are working by yourself then unroll it after lining it up on your work piece or go with the spacers as mentioned before just space them close because unlike p-lam it's very thin and will contact in spots when you are not ready.....also when you finish your table, use a coat of sanding sealer before aplying any lacquer or it might be to hot and bubble again. Thats where the Iron comes in, place a cloth down and heat the glue up and using a block of wood with a chamfer on it pushing the bubble back down.....hope this helps

[Ed in Tampa]

Not sure of what happened when you tried contact cement, but from the sound of it you didn't work from the middle out.

Using wood glue on your next attempt was okay however I think your problem here was in the clamping. Since wood glue takes so long to dry and it is can bring or add moisture to the wood you must insure you have every square inch of wood clamped. The best way is another board that covers the whole area laided on top and then the whole thing placed in a vaccum bag. Don't have a vaccum bag then you need a lot of clamps and cauls to make sure the top board is completely clamped down.

Fix for you existing problem. I doubt it will work but I would try to lightly sand the ridges out. Who knows you may get lucky and sand them out before you sand through the veneer.

You said your using Red Oak, do you know that Red Oak ply is readily available? It might be cheaper to buy the ply for large sections of your project and do the edge binding and smaller sections yourself so you can learn the techniques.

Often it becomes a matter of economics, by the time you get all the needed clamps/vacuum bags it is cheaper to buy commercially produced ply with the veneer you want already applied.

If you don't have all the clamps and want to try this again, go back to contact cement. Get a fresh can, some of the new products change colors letting you know if they are dry enough and etc. Practice on a smaller piece using standoffs to keep the veneer out of the glue until your ready to work that area. Pay attention to applying a uniform coat on both pieces and practice, practice, practive. Once you got the process down, try again on your project.