That tiny deviation could very easily come from table alignment.
Just loosen all four bolts that secure the table to the trunnions and do a table alignment again. Be particularly picky while doing the alignment and you can get it near dead on.
Curious coincidence? The typical Shopsmith saw blade is 3/32" thick.
A peek at my table alignment tool.
http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewtopic.php?t=10868[/quote]
Dusty,
Right as usual. Makes more sense to re-align the table. Doing it today.
PowerPro Headstock Review, 2015
Moderator: admin
Re: PowerPro Headstock Review, 2015
That's what I was trying to say in post #4 in this thread.dusty wrote:
That tiny deviation could very easily come from table alignment.
Just loosen all four bolts that secure the table to the trunnions and do a table alignment again. Be particularly picky while doing the alignment and you can get it near dead on.
Curious coincidence? The typical Shopsmith saw blade is 3/32" thick.
A peek at my table alignment tool.
http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewtopic.php?t=10868
Gale's Law: The bigger the woodworking project, the less the mistakes show in any photo taken far enough away to show the entire project!
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dusty
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- Location: Tucson (Wildcat Country), Arizona
Re: PowerPro Headstock Review, 2015
I think that is exactly what you said. Good advise always warrants repeating. However, I do not believe that the blade should be 'dead center' in the table insert cutout. I align to put the left edge of the blade on that center line.algale wrote:That's what I was trying to say in post #4 in this thread.dusty wrote:
That tiny deviation could very easily come from table alignment.
Just loosen all four bolts that secure the table to the trunnions and do a table alignment again. Be particularly picky while doing the alignment and you can get it near dead on.
Curious coincidence? The typical Shopsmith saw blade is 3/32" thick.
A peek at my table alignment tool.
http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewtopic.php?t=10868
Don't ask me why! I just do it that way. Anyone who wants to debate that may but I will not be on the debate stage.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Re: PowerPro Headstock Review, 2015
I will be reviewing routing and shaping function of the Powerpro headstock in this post. First a little background. I tried routing on the 510 when I first got it and found it completely unsuitable so over the years I built a table router using a Milwaukee 3 ½ HP variable speed router and a Jessem router lift. That has pretty much met my needs but when using large diameter bits greater than ½” even that sized router can start to have issues. The torque on most routers is optimized for 18,000 RPM and while I can set the RPM down to 8,000 the power is nothing close to 3 ½ HP. So I was anxious to see what the PowerPro would do at 10,000 RPM.
I used the Shopsmith ½” router arbor and router shield in the overhead position since I don’t have a double tilt. The router arbor and bit maintained a .003” run out error. For those of you that might be tempted to just use the drill chuck, don’t even think about it. Not only is dangerous spinning at 9500 RPM, it will ruin your chuck that is not built for lateral forces.
I first tried a ½” 4 flute end mill bit. Most bits have two flutes (cutting edges) but the more flutes the lower the RPM can be used to produce smoother cuts. I used 9500 RPM for a 1/8” depth to make a slot cut on red oak. I used about the same feed rate as I use on my router table and the cut went well. The overall quality was pretty smooth. Then I did the same cut with a ½” 2 flute spiral bit and the quality of the cut was even smoother. Next I tried a 1” 2 flute bit at a 1/8” depth of cut which again gave a nice smooth finish so I increased the depth of cut to ¼” just to see what would happen. This deep of cut with a 1” bit would probably stall my table router. On the PowerPro as long as I slowed the feed rate a little bit it seemed to take it quite well and produced a smooth cut. I used the miter gauge to make some end cuts across the grain and they turned out well if a little slower feed was used. End cross grain cuts with large bits is always a problem area for my table router. Next I tried a 45 degree triple winged chamfer bit that is 2” in diameter which has a guide bearing on the bottom. I was able do some quite deep chamfer cuts, up to ¼” without any issues. I think these triple wing bits offered by MLSC (http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite ... _rp_anchor)
are great for the PowerPro. They make many different types at fairly reasonable prices. This is a nice way to put an exact 45 degree edge on stock up to 1” thick. Of course you will have to take several passes, I would not try more than ¼” per pass. The size of these three winged bits make them very much like shaper cutters. I didn’t buy a shaper arbor and cutters, so I won’t be able to review shaping but these bits are so close I am pretty sure they will perform about the same. If I decide in the future that I can’t live without a true shaper I found a great source. ToolsandMore at http://toolsandmore.us/shaper-cutters.aspx
have all types of cutters, ball bearing rub collars and bushings. They have both ½” and ¾” cutters and a bushing you can use on Shopsmith arbor to accept ¾” cutters. There is a much larger selection of ¾” cutters than ½”. The cutters are a little more expensive than Shopsmith’s but they are carbide instead of HSS.
I used 9500 RPM throughout these tests but in time I plan to experiment with other speeds. I did not experience any burning with red oak on any of the cuts. I don’t have a proper fence yet, I just used the Shopsmith fence for these test cuts, but I plan to get the Shopsmith split fence in the future. I really like the way the PowerPro cuts using large bits and it will be a nice addition to my table router. I also plan to experiment with tilting the table to get more interesting cuts and putting the headstock down in the horizontal position to try horizontal routing. There are some downsides. The overhead configuration just seems a lot more dangerous to me. Before each cut I do a lot of planning to ensure my hands will never come in contact with the bit and I always use the shield, push blocks and the miter gauge when appropriate. I know double tilt is the solution to this but I just don’t do enough routing to justify it. Dust collection is a problem. I used the drum sanding table insert and vacuum attachment with the shield. It did ok in some cases but sometimes it gets completely cover up with stock making it useless. For horizontal routing there really isn’t any collection at all. If I were going to do a lot of routing I would probably make a better collection jig. On the positive side since the RPM is lower than most routers the chips are bigger than the fine dust I am use to from a 18,000 to 24,000 RPM router.
Overall I was happy with the PowerPro routing performance. I don’t think it would ever replace a good table router but it complements it very well. Whether you could get along with it to meet all your routing needs depends on those needs but I know I couldn’t. I just would not be happy with its performance with small diameter bits. For the time being I think the kind of large router bits that are on the market today makes the shaper function kind of redundant. There are things the router mode can do that the shaper can’t but the router can do everything a shaper can, just maybe not quite as well. I didn’t spend a lot of time routing at 9500 RPM but I did not detect any excessive heating of the headstock some have experienced but even my table router gets pretty warm if I use it steadily for over 15 or 20 minutes.
Routing definitely is the second most important reason for me doing the PowerPro upgrade well behind the table saw function. Well this pretty much concludes my PowerPro review but I do plan one more post dealing with the cost benefit analysis.
I used the Shopsmith ½” router arbor and router shield in the overhead position since I don’t have a double tilt. The router arbor and bit maintained a .003” run out error. For those of you that might be tempted to just use the drill chuck, don’t even think about it. Not only is dangerous spinning at 9500 RPM, it will ruin your chuck that is not built for lateral forces.
I first tried a ½” 4 flute end mill bit. Most bits have two flutes (cutting edges) but the more flutes the lower the RPM can be used to produce smoother cuts. I used 9500 RPM for a 1/8” depth to make a slot cut on red oak. I used about the same feed rate as I use on my router table and the cut went well. The overall quality was pretty smooth. Then I did the same cut with a ½” 2 flute spiral bit and the quality of the cut was even smoother. Next I tried a 1” 2 flute bit at a 1/8” depth of cut which again gave a nice smooth finish so I increased the depth of cut to ¼” just to see what would happen. This deep of cut with a 1” bit would probably stall my table router. On the PowerPro as long as I slowed the feed rate a little bit it seemed to take it quite well and produced a smooth cut. I used the miter gauge to make some end cuts across the grain and they turned out well if a little slower feed was used. End cross grain cuts with large bits is always a problem area for my table router. Next I tried a 45 degree triple winged chamfer bit that is 2” in diameter which has a guide bearing on the bottom. I was able do some quite deep chamfer cuts, up to ¼” without any issues. I think these triple wing bits offered by MLSC (http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite ... _rp_anchor)
are great for the PowerPro. They make many different types at fairly reasonable prices. This is a nice way to put an exact 45 degree edge on stock up to 1” thick. Of course you will have to take several passes, I would not try more than ¼” per pass. The size of these three winged bits make them very much like shaper cutters. I didn’t buy a shaper arbor and cutters, so I won’t be able to review shaping but these bits are so close I am pretty sure they will perform about the same. If I decide in the future that I can’t live without a true shaper I found a great source. ToolsandMore at http://toolsandmore.us/shaper-cutters.aspx
have all types of cutters, ball bearing rub collars and bushings. They have both ½” and ¾” cutters and a bushing you can use on Shopsmith arbor to accept ¾” cutters. There is a much larger selection of ¾” cutters than ½”. The cutters are a little more expensive than Shopsmith’s but they are carbide instead of HSS.
I used 9500 RPM throughout these tests but in time I plan to experiment with other speeds. I did not experience any burning with red oak on any of the cuts. I don’t have a proper fence yet, I just used the Shopsmith fence for these test cuts, but I plan to get the Shopsmith split fence in the future. I really like the way the PowerPro cuts using large bits and it will be a nice addition to my table router. I also plan to experiment with tilting the table to get more interesting cuts and putting the headstock down in the horizontal position to try horizontal routing. There are some downsides. The overhead configuration just seems a lot more dangerous to me. Before each cut I do a lot of planning to ensure my hands will never come in contact with the bit and I always use the shield, push blocks and the miter gauge when appropriate. I know double tilt is the solution to this but I just don’t do enough routing to justify it. Dust collection is a problem. I used the drum sanding table insert and vacuum attachment with the shield. It did ok in some cases but sometimes it gets completely cover up with stock making it useless. For horizontal routing there really isn’t any collection at all. If I were going to do a lot of routing I would probably make a better collection jig. On the positive side since the RPM is lower than most routers the chips are bigger than the fine dust I am use to from a 18,000 to 24,000 RPM router.
Overall I was happy with the PowerPro routing performance. I don’t think it would ever replace a good table router but it complements it very well. Whether you could get along with it to meet all your routing needs depends on those needs but I know I couldn’t. I just would not be happy with its performance with small diameter bits. For the time being I think the kind of large router bits that are on the market today makes the shaper function kind of redundant. There are things the router mode can do that the shaper can’t but the router can do everything a shaper can, just maybe not quite as well. I didn’t spend a lot of time routing at 9500 RPM but I did not detect any excessive heating of the headstock some have experienced but even my table router gets pretty warm if I use it steadily for over 15 or 20 minutes.
Routing definitely is the second most important reason for me doing the PowerPro upgrade well behind the table saw function. Well this pretty much concludes my PowerPro review but I do plan one more post dealing with the cost benefit analysis.
Re: PowerPro Headstock Review, 2015
In this post I will attempt to do a little cost benefit analysis for upgrading your headstock to a PowerPro. First is the cost of the upgrade. Prices are as of 4/2015 with no sales tax or shipping charges.
Upgrade Kit List Price ---------------------$1649.00
Lowe’s Event Discount Price ----------------$1469.67
Lowe’s 10% Discount--------------------------$146.97
Proceeds from old parts sale-----------------$404.00
Final Cost-----------------------------------$918.70
The Lowe’s 10% discount was for opening a Lowe’s credit card account which I promptly closed after 30 days. The old parts were sold on Ebay in 5 auctions: the motor & power cord, the Idler shaft & eccentric bushing, the drive shaft assembly, the quill assembly and the speed control assembly.
The improved table saw function was my primary driver so since I had a 510 I felt I needed a 520 upgrade to provide an equivalent cabinet saw performance. The added cost for the 520 upgrade is as follows.
520 Upgrade List Price ---------------------$475.69
Lowe’s Event Discount Price ----------------$425.78
Lowe’s 10% Discount--------------------------$42.58
Proceeds from old parts sale-----------------$81.00
Final Cost-----------------------------------$302.20
Therefore my total upgrade cost was $1220.90. The most economical cabinet saw I could find that I would be happy with was the Grizzly G1023RL currently selling for $1250. http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3-HP ... aw/G1023RL
On the surface it would seem that for only $30 more one would clearly opt for the Grizzly, it is a very impressive saw weighing in at over 500 LBS. But the kicker is that I have limited shop space, a single dedicated garage bay. I already have a table router, a 18” bandsaw, a sliding 12” miter saw, workbench, 39 X 25” CNC router, milling machine, and a 12” planer in addition to my shopsmith. Several years ago I bought an 8” jointer that lives in the same garage bay as my truck but I can roll out when I am milling up wood. There is no way I can live without the shopsmith drilling/boring function and its handy table system and I had already exceeded space with the jointer elsewhere in the garage so I was stuck. For me the PowerPro upgrade was the only logical option plus I got the added benefit of the routing and shaping functions. Even a low end dedicated shaper goes for $1000 or more. Others who do more turning than I do and use large drilling bits would certainly have more justification for the upgrade. But for me the cost analysis boiled down to optimizing space not dollars and cents.
This concludes my review of the PowerPro upgrade. I hope it helps those of you who are thinking about upgrading. I am very happy with my decision.
Upgrade Kit List Price ---------------------$1649.00
Lowe’s Event Discount Price ----------------$1469.67
Lowe’s 10% Discount--------------------------$146.97
Proceeds from old parts sale-----------------$404.00
Final Cost-----------------------------------$918.70
The Lowe’s 10% discount was for opening a Lowe’s credit card account which I promptly closed after 30 days. The old parts were sold on Ebay in 5 auctions: the motor & power cord, the Idler shaft & eccentric bushing, the drive shaft assembly, the quill assembly and the speed control assembly.
The improved table saw function was my primary driver so since I had a 510 I felt I needed a 520 upgrade to provide an equivalent cabinet saw performance. The added cost for the 520 upgrade is as follows.
520 Upgrade List Price ---------------------$475.69
Lowe’s Event Discount Price ----------------$425.78
Lowe’s 10% Discount--------------------------$42.58
Proceeds from old parts sale-----------------$81.00
Final Cost-----------------------------------$302.20
Therefore my total upgrade cost was $1220.90. The most economical cabinet saw I could find that I would be happy with was the Grizzly G1023RL currently selling for $1250. http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3-HP ... aw/G1023RL
On the surface it would seem that for only $30 more one would clearly opt for the Grizzly, it is a very impressive saw weighing in at over 500 LBS. But the kicker is that I have limited shop space, a single dedicated garage bay. I already have a table router, a 18” bandsaw, a sliding 12” miter saw, workbench, 39 X 25” CNC router, milling machine, and a 12” planer in addition to my shopsmith. Several years ago I bought an 8” jointer that lives in the same garage bay as my truck but I can roll out when I am milling up wood. There is no way I can live without the shopsmith drilling/boring function and its handy table system and I had already exceeded space with the jointer elsewhere in the garage so I was stuck. For me the PowerPro upgrade was the only logical option plus I got the added benefit of the routing and shaping functions. Even a low end dedicated shaper goes for $1000 or more. Others who do more turning than I do and use large drilling bits would certainly have more justification for the upgrade. But for me the cost analysis boiled down to optimizing space not dollars and cents.
This concludes my review of the PowerPro upgrade. I hope it helps those of you who are thinking about upgrading. I am very happy with my decision.
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AEA
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- Location: Spring Creek, NV (by Elko) Northern Nevada
Re: PowerPro Headstock Review, 2015
I know this is an older post but it answered my question. I recently bought a PowerPro headstock and was wondering about using the regular 1/8" blades as opposed to the thin kerf 3/32". With the added power why not, but I don't remember any recommendations for the PowerPro. I know my old headstock info said to ge buy the thin kerf blades.
Plus your tolerance tests were a great bonus.
Plus your tolerance tests were a great bonus.
Re: PowerPro Headstock Review, 2015
Dan,AEA wrote:I know this is an older post but it answered my question. I recently bought a PowerPro headstock and was wondering about using the regular 1/8" blades as opposed to the thin kerf 3/32". With the added power why not, but I don't remember any recommendations for the PowerPro. I know my old headstock info said to ge buy the thin kerf blades.
Plus your tolerance tests were a great bonus.
I regularly run a 1/8" blade in my 520 (1-1/8HP motor) without a PowerPro headstock. I have a Forrest Woodworker II (full kerf blade, not the thin kerf version) ripping blade. I have no problems with rips in 8/4 cherry as long as I keep the sawblade clean. If I was cutting thick hard (rock) maple, maybe I would have a problem, but then again I don't know. I am sure if I had a PowerPro headstock, I might be able to feed faster with it. For sure the PowerPro has more power so the cut should require less effort than what I have today. Bottomline, I think if you buy a high quality sawblade you can use a full kerf sawblade in any tablesaw. However, if you are only going to spend $20 on a sawblade, then a thin kerf blade has an advantage over a full kerf blade in an underpowered saw.
I wouldn't hesitate to use a 1/8" kerf sawblade with your PowerPro - it should have plenty of power. Just know that sawblade quality does matter though.
RF GuyMark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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AEA
- Gold Member
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- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:41 pm
- Location: Spring Creek, NV (by Elko) Northern Nevada
Re: PowerPro Headstock Review, 2015
Thanks RF Guy,
Yep I'm a firm believer in good blades. I have a Forrest but it is a thin kerf. I just got a Ridge Carbide 44 tooth flat tooth with a 1 1/4' arbor but it is also a thin kerf. The 1/8 inch would be a little easier for my box joints. I'll let family know to adjust their Christmas list specs.
Yep I'm a firm believer in good blades. I have a Forrest but it is a thin kerf. I just got a Ridge Carbide 44 tooth flat tooth with a 1 1/4' arbor but it is also a thin kerf. The 1/8 inch would be a little easier for my box joints. I'll let family know to adjust their Christmas list specs.