Advice on 510 purchase

[mattmeek]

My son and I rode an hour south and picked up the 510 yesterday. I'd never seen one in person before and was pleased with the overall workmanship and sturdiness of the machine and tables when everything gets locked down. I've got nothing against inexpensive chinese made tools. They make it possible for us to do alot of things we wouldn't otherwise be able to. However, it's gratifying to own a fully american made tool with almost no plastic.

The guy selling it knew nothing about it and was selling it for his girlfriend who knew less. It was her dad's who bought it all new in '91. She said he used it a few times and then lost interest. Just looking at use wear on the blades and tables, this seems to be accurate. Alot of the extras, bits, blades, and lathe tools were still in the, now brittle, plastic.

After spending 30 years in a basement, this thing has some rust to be sure but nothing like many of the older or poorly stored machines I've seen on this site. It needs to be gone cleaned and some pitting and rust removed from the waytubes and other spots but first I wanted to open up the headstock and see what the problem(s) were.

Good news: once I got the engine out and plugged it in, I was very relieved to find that it ran perfectly. No noises from any bearings and the copper wire coils were pristine. You guys were right! The motor is fine.

Bad news: the upper and lower shieves are stuck (won't separate) and don't even wiggle. I'm seeing some rust around the centers of both. More bad news: while the lower shieve (attached to the engine) will rotate fine, upper (speed control?) shieve won't separate and only rotates a half turn before hitting some obstruction or blockage. Not sure if it's a bearing or something the assembly is attached to. I sprayed PB Blaster in the joints and lube holes.

At that point, I had to leave and bring the boy home as it was a school night. I will head back over today to continue the investigation.

Questions: 1) any insights on what might be blocking the upper shieve from turning? See pictures.
2) Should I just accept that I need to completely tear this thing down to individual parts, clean and oil everything, and then replace bearings, belts, and switch? While it's no spring chicken, this shopsmith isn't so old. I feel like i'm aggregating the advice i've read on here, most of which is for much older units.

I'm pleased with the purchase and anxious to get started learning to use the machine. As I told the seller, I'd never heard of shopsmith before a few weeks ago when I was searching Clist for tools and found this unit, one of 3 for sale within a few hours from me.

So, I wan't to get it going ASAP, but I also know that once I get it back together, I will be loathe to break it apart again. Probably should address all these rusty parts now and get it ship shape.

Thanks very much for your advice so far. One of reasons I ultimately decided to go this route was the community of people that continue to enjoy using them and are happy to share their knowledge.

[br549]

Congratulations on your new machine! Glad to hear the motor runs OK. Looking at the rust inside the headstock makes me think it should be disassembled as far as necessary to get everything cleaned of rust and moving freely. My 40 year old machine has been lubed and cleaned regularly and even in an un-air conditioned garage in humid Houston, I've never seen rust in places like yours inside of mine. With proper cleaning and regular lube, you should be good for a long time.

[edma194]

Bad news: the upper and lower shieves are stuck (won't separate) and don't even wiggle. I'm seeing some rust around the centers of both. More bad news: while the lower shieve (attached to the engine) will rotate fine, upper (speed control?) shieve won't separate and only rotates a half turn before hitting some obstruction or blockage. Not sure if it's a bearing or something the assembly is attached to. I sprayed PB Blaster in the joints and lube holes.

At that point, I had to leave and bring the boy home as it was a school night. I will head back over today to continue the investigation.

Questions: 1) any insights on what might be blocking the upper shieve from turning? See pictures.
2) Should I just accept that I need to completely tear this thing down to individual parts, clean and oil everything, and then replace bearings, belts, and switch? While it's no spring chicken, this shopsmith isn't so old. I feel like i'm aggregating the advice i've read on here, most of which is for much older units.

My first Shopsmith was a much older greenie from 1954 and got to me in that condition with the sheaves stuck. I cleaned and lubed things up as best I could without success, was talking with Shopsmith to get info on disassembly, when it just sprang open as I poked around inside the headstock. In that case there was some rust but sawdust was the bigger problem. I managed to get things cleaned off sufficiently for years of use until the quad eventually broke and then I finally rebuilt it. Based on your pictures I'd say you should take a plastic brush and blow and vacuum it out well to see the real extent of problem. Things may free up and be good enough to get some use from it.

Any indication the bearings are a problem? If it hasn't had much use they should be fine.

You do have a working motor though, that should be a big relief to you. And it turned out you got a really good deal, even if you need a part or two now they will be much less expensive than a new motor.

[DLB]

Congratulations, that seems like a great buy especially with the motor working. The sheaves being stuck from sliding is probably not a big deal and is common, but requires a fair amount of disassembly. From experience, it is always best to disassemble both the Idler shaft and Motor shaft for the necessary cleaning and lubrication to resolve that.

The half turn of rotation is tougher, I can't think of a common reason. A bearing would have to be extremely bad to cause that symptom. Personal opinion: as instructional videos go I think the Shopsmith video on PowerPro upgrade is one of the most informative for disassembly of a conventional headstock, though there are many others. You can find it here: https://youtu.be/xCLkH6T1uQE This will hep with taking the major assemblies out of the headstock, but not rebuilding them. It is a good place to start. My approach would be to start by disassembling until whatever was preventing rotation was no longer doing so.

- David

[JPG]

Considering the rust and aluminum oxide present a complete tear down Is I fear the best approach. You will not regret doing so(after it is back together and making sawdust).

We are here to help.

From looking at the rusted key on the idler shaft I think removing that rust which is visible(apply evaporusrt). The rust will obstruct movement along the shaft for both the control sheave and removing the fixed sheave from the shaft.

I think it best to separate assemblies and concentrate on them one at a time. That also eliminates them interacting.

So I would first remove the speed control, then the quill and then concentrate on the control sheave/idler shaft. You already have the motor/'lower' sheaves out. BTW the floating sheave must overcome the spring to move along the shaft.

I assume the you tube above will tell you how to get it 'torn down'.(all but the lower sheaves etc.)(let us advise you before proceeding to work on that because that has a jack in the box surprise awaiting thee!)

[mattmeek]

It's all torn apart now and I see can see that any hope of avoiding this was wishful thinking. The outside quill bearing was partially stuck. It will rotate now but is still tight or gives resistance at the one spot and will have to be replaced. I want to replace both bearings on this end of the quill shaft.

It took some serious cussing to get the shaft out of its sleeve. The bearings are pretty well stuck on there.

Question 1: if I order the replacement bearings (probably from Jacob Anderson) will I need special tools to remove the old and reinstall new bearings? I read Bill Mayo's write up on replacing bearings and frankly, it scared the shit out me. I could justify buying the separator and puller set from HF but it didn't sound like that really worked without alot of jerryrigging.

Question 2: the bearings on the motor sheave and control sheave seem totally fine. The motor sheave pulley has loosed up and moves back and forth on the spring smoothly. Would it be unwise to skip pulling these apart and just thoroughly clean and lube instead?

[DLB]

Question 1: if I order the replacement bearings (probably from Jacob Anderson) will I need special tools to remove the old and reinstall new bearings? I read Bill Mayo's write up on replacing bearings and frankly, it scared the shit out me. I could justify buying the separator and puller set from HF but it didn't sound like that really worked without alot of jerryrigging.

Question 2: the bearings on the motor sheave and control sheave seem totally fine. The motor sheave pulley has loosed up and moves back and forth on the spring smoothly. Would it be unwise to skip pulling these apart and just thoroughly clean and lube instead?

For Quill bearing replacement, there are at least three types of two-bearing quills. Yours probably has the two piece spindle that is held together with a roll pin. If that's correct then good, this is the easiest for replacing bearings with limited special tools. Mark the two pieces for later re-alignment, then drive the pin out and separate the pieces. You'll need some type of bearing puller at this point, or you can take the assembly and new parts to a machine shop. A press is preferred for installing new bearings, but they can be driven on for this version spindle. Either way, you should only contact the inner race. I prefer RS (rubber sealed) bearings for this, the headstock is not a clean environment. Assembly is the reverse, I would use a new pin. The Jacob video on this is good instruction. Some of the large auto parts chains loan tools, I think you can borrow a bearing removal set at no cost.

If the Idler and Motor bearings are good I'd leave them alone. But I would still disassemble both shafts for thorough cleaning, including the bores of the moving sheaves. Smooth sliding operation of those sheaves is critical to how well the speed control works. You'll have to compress the spring on the motor shaft for disassembly/reassembly, the Jacob video is one of many on this.

- David

[br549]

For compressing the fan sheave spring, here is some additional guidance from Shopsmith (part of their instructions for removing a motor)

[chapmanruss]

mattmeek,

The picture in your post above is the drive sleeve and not the actual quill assembly. Is it the drive sleeve shown in the picture that has the bad bearing? If so David's instructions for the quill are not the same as replacing the bearings on the drive sleeve. Replacing the drive sleeve bearings is easier since they are visible and one goes on each end. It is still best to install them with a press but can be done with simpler tools.

[edma194]

Sorry to hear about the problems. You'll have to do some work and get a few parts but you're still going to end up with a machine that otherwise looks like it's in good shape with a lot of extras. You still got a great deal on this one.