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Shorter Arbor

miken

Hi, I just bought a saw guard from a Mark 5 for use on my Mark VII. It does fit properly, and I made an aluminum spacer so it would work with the longer Mark VII arbor. I read that a shorter arbor is available and comes with the Mark 5/Mark V 500. This arbor fits in the lower guard without the need for the spacer. Anyone know the part number? I see two shorter types available on the Shopsmith site. Is one preferred over the other? I suppose it doesn't have to be Shopsmith if a standard 5/8" bore arbor will work, but I need the length people use without the spacer.

Also, I think my arbor is 505506 (not sure), is there any problem with reversing the spacers as I have shown in the bottom picture? It fits in the guard either way, but it wont align with the riving knife unless I reverse the spacers.

Thanks, Mike -

chapmanruss

The older Mark VII from the 1960's will use the same arbors as the Mark 5 or Mark V 500. The lower Blade Guard P/N 505628 is from the Mark 5 and the lower blade guard from the Mark VII P/N 505705 both use the same upper guard P/N 505627. Using the Mark V 510, 505, 520 and Mark 7 Arbors you need to use the spacer for the lower Guard P/N 505628 to add width to accommodate them.

JPG

505506 is not intended to be a saw arbor.

Think Mark 5/V 500 when considering things for a MVII

DLB

miken wrote Hi, I just bought a saw guard from a Mark 5 for use on my Mark VII. It does fit properly, and I made an aluminum spacer so it would work with the longer Mark VII arbor. I read that a shorter arbor is available and comes with the Mark 5/Mark V 500. This arbor fits in the lower guard without the need for the spacer. Anyone know the part number? I see two shorter types available on the Shopsmith site. Is one preferred over the other? I suppose it doesn't have to be Shopsmith if a standard 5/8" bore arbor will work, but I need the length people use without the spacer.

Also, I think my arbor is 505506 (not sure), is there any problem with reversing the spacers as I have shown in the bottom picture? It fits in the guard either way, but it wont align with the riving knife unless I reverse the spacers.

Thanks, Mike -

I think the statement "(Photo shows Model 500 arbor)" on the SS web site might be incorrect and it shows the 520, 510, 505 version. Someone please correct me on that if I'm wrong. As far as the two types shown in the pics, the top one is for blades with a 1-1/4" bore (SS standard) arbor and the second is for the more common 5/8" bore arbor (So yes, one is preferred over the other depending on which blade type. ;) ) Farther down the page it shows the two part numbers for Mark V Model 500:

https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/swd_sawbladearbors.htm

505511 is Mark V 500 1-1/4" blade bore

505321 is Mark V 500 5/8" blade bore

- David

br549

Surprised no one has mentioned this thread, in which Russ Chapman attached his photo and text listing of most of the various arbors over the years.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24149&p=275693&hilit=arbors#p275693

chapmanruss

David,

The first paragraph below in the online catalog listing for the arbors is incorrect. An oops on Shopsmith's part. :eek:

Get one for every blade so you can change from blade-to-blade almost instantly. (Photo shows Model 500 arbor)

It should say (Photos do not show Model 500 arbors)

The two photos show the arbors for the Mark V 510, 505, 520 and the Mark 7 part numbers 555130 (top) and 555608 (bottom). The arbors for the Mark V 500 and all previous Mark series tools (Mark 5, Mark 2 & Mark VII) are not shown in pictures in the online catalog. For those with the SawSmith Table Saw the 5/8" Arbor P/N 555608 may look familiar as it was originally made for it but later replaced the 5/8" arbor P/N 555118 made for the Mark V 510 & 505 when they first came out.

The 5/8" Arbor P/N 505506 was originally the Universal Arbor and a carry over from the early Shopsmith days. It progressed from the first 5/8" Arbor P/N 126-1X for multi use including a saw blade for the Model 10E. Arbor 505506 is now the 5/8" Molder/Dado Arbor and is intended only for that use. There have been two dozen Arbors made over the years some simply different versions like 505506 having 4 with changes to the diameter of the spacer, diameter of the base and the length of the threaded shaft. Many of the arbors have different uses and sizes. This does not include Shaper Spindles or Router Chucks.

EDIT

br549,

Thanks for adding the link in your post above.

miken

Thanks for the replies guys. I am amazed at the knowledge and part number memorization. My Shopsmith journey is just beginning and I have a LOT to learn. The picture below is what I have to work with. I assume they are all original and likely came with the machine, but I don't really know that. The one on the left is the reverse thread 1 1/4" and I don't have any blades for that. The middle one is a 1/2" and I don't have blades for that one either. The one on the right is what I think is the 505506, it is 5/8" and the only one I have ever used (and that was years ago). It is longer than will fit in the lower guard without adding the aluminum spacer I made, and I am assuming my lower guard is a 505628 Mark 5, not the 505705 Mark VII or the arbor I have would fit in the lower guard, right?

I am looking to find the shorter arbor that will fit in the lower guard without the need for the aluminum spacer, and I think it is 555608? Does that sound right? EDIT: 555321, for Mark V (500), not 555608 for Mark 7, as that is not a Mark VII. Sigh. I am pretty confused with all the Mark 5 vs. Mark 5 (500) and Mark V's. Not to mention the old 7 which is nothing like the new 7's, and I still don't really know if an old Mark 7 is the same as my Mark VII? Throw in a bunch of 505's, 510's and 520's and well, bam, confusion. Lots more reading to do.

If my 505506 (assuming it is a 505506) is not intended to be used with saw blades, which one is please?

Thanks, Mike -

br549

Like DLB (David) stated above, you can use either:

505511 is the Mark 5/V/500 version for 1-1/4" blade bore, which is apparently the one you have with left hand threads.

505321 is the Mark 5/V/500 version for 5/8" blade bore.. You can buy from Shopsmith, or they occasionally come up on ebay. Be sure the seller knows what he/she is selling, because as you have found, it is a confusing topic.

Either should fit within your lower guard without the spacer piece. That said, I have a 500 and use my lower guard with a spacer piece with both of those arbors, as it gives me a little more room to get the blade on the quill without having to swing open the right face of the lower guard.

The 505506 is meant to be used with a molder head or dado saw blades, not a single blade by itself.

Just keep reading and learning and eventually all the configurations of Shopsmiths and their accessories will become clearer.

miken

br549 wrote
505321 is the Mark 5/V/500 version for 5/8" blade bore..

I think it is 555321, right? 😃

br549 wrote
a little more room to get the blade on the quill without having to swing open the right face of the lower guard.

That's a good tip! I don't have many blades to change yet anyway, and the real issue is having to completely remove the riving knife in order to raise the table up and over the blade. That's likely going to be a pain.

br549 wrote
or they occasionally come up on ebay. Be sure the seller knows what he/she is selling

They seem to be priced higher than brand new from Shopsmith.

br549 wrote
Just keep reading and learning and eventually all the configurations of Shopsmiths and their accessories will become clearer.

I have been a bit obsessed since I decided to try and fix the motor, which I did with help from this forum, then went on to the 3 button switch, got lucky there too. Bunch of great people helped me figure out my fence wasn't properly working, now I'm happy with that too. I bought upper and lower guards (I wont tell you how close I came to losing a finger reaching under the saw years ago). I also found and bought a shaper/sander fence which should be here Friday. :rolleyes: After much searching for some OEM casters, I am designing my own, then clean out the garage, move the saw from the basement and cut something. 😃

Thanks for the help, Mike -

JPG

Unfortunately Mark VII and Mark 7 do get interchanged occasionally(look at the tags on your Mark VII).

It helps if Mark VII is used when referring to a 1960's machine and Mark 7 when referring to the current version.

As I said before arbors intended for a MarkV 500 WILL WORK with a Mark VII. The Mark VII used Mark 5(= MV 500)arbors.

chapmanruss

Mike,

You said in your post above

I also found and bought a shaper/sander fence which should be here Friday.

I hope you found the Shaper Fence for the Mark VII. There have been three different fences made over the years. The first is for the Mark 5 with the original table system aka Mark V 500 and will fit the Shopsmith Model 10's also. The second is specifically for the 1960's Mark VII and is show in the picture below. It has been out of production for a very long time. The third is for the Mark V 510, 505, 520 and Mark 7 all with the larger table system.

Note the attachment bolts are in between the fence adjustment knobs and go through holes in the table.

Stay with the lower blade guard you have currently. The original one made for the Mark VII is a cast aluminum guard that wraps around both sides of the blade and is not extendable. It is in the picture below.

As JPG said

Unfortunately Mark VII and Mark 7 do get interchanged occasionally

To add to the confusion the Mark VII from the 1960's has both Mark VII and Mark 7 on it. Generally speaking Mark VII is referred to the 1960's model and Mark 7 is the current model. For clarification I like to use 1960's Mark VII or current Mark 7 although I sometimes neglect to.

Mark VII Shaper Fence.jpg

505705 Saw Dust Chute.jpg

br549

miken,

You are correct about the 5/8" arbor part number for a Mark 5/V/500 ... it is 555321. Sorry for adding to the confusion.

And yes, there are new arbors on ebay from a third party supplier that cost more than from Shopsmith. Unless you are in a big rush and Shopsmith is out of stock, I don't understand either why someone why pay more. Used 555321 arbors do occasionally come up for sale on ebay at a slightly lower price. I got mine a few years ago that way for about half the cost of new from Shopsmith.

I am not very familiar with Mark VIIs from the 1960's, but based on my experience with my Mark V (500), the difference in length between a 555321 and a 555608 is about 5 mm. I know this because I mistakenly purchased a 555608 arbor before I understood the differences. The 555608 worked and I used it for several years before getting the 555321. I simply had to use the quill extension to get the blade to be more or less centered in the saw table insert. I don't recall, but I was probably using it with a spacer in my lower guard. Whether the previous version of a 5/8" arbor for the 505/510/520/Mark 7 (P/N 555118) is also 5 mm longer, I don't know. And whether or not the 555608 or the 555118 are even an option for your Mark VII and your lower guard, I don't know.

(NOTE: My overall length measurements are approximate, with a gap left for approximately a 1/8" thick blade on both arbors.)

miken

chapmanruss wrote
I hope you found the Shaper Fence for the Mark VII. There have been three different fences made over the years.

This is a picture of the one I bought. I had holes already drilled in my table. I measured the distance between them at 3 3/8" center to center and had the seller confirm the same spacing. I am pretty sure it is correct, and looks like your picture. It was an impulse buy. I already have a separate craftsman router and table. 😉

Thanks for the info, really appreciate it.

Mike -

miken

br549 wrote You are correct about the 5/8" arbor part number for a Mark 5/V/500 ... it is 555321. Sorry for adding to the confusion.

No worries at all. I knew what you meant and really appreciate the help.

br549 wrote And yes, there are new arbors on ebay from a third party supplier that cost more than from Shopsmith. Unless you are in a big rush and Shopsmith is out of stock, I don't understand either why someone why pay more.

A lot of the Shopsmith stuff on eBay is ridiculously priced, but they know supplies are limited.

br549 wrote I don't recall, but I was probably using it with a spacer in my lower guard.

I was mostly concerned with the order of the arbor spacers. I have always used it with the thickest spacer first, then the blade, then the thinner spacer, lock tab washer, nut. To get the blade to align with the riving knife I have to put the thin spacer on first.

I think the 555321 is my best choice, and I haven't found one on eBay for cheap, so I may just buy from Shopsmith.

Thanks for the arbor pics and dimensions.

Mike -

chapmanruss

Mike,

I an glad to see you found the correct Shaper Fence.

If you checked out the link br549 provided in a previous post you should have found two PDF's in my post. Scroll up from where the link takes you to that post. One has a picture of many of the Arbors from over the years and the other is a listing of the Arbors with additional information. The pictures below are more complete than the one in the PDF. Use these pictures as a reference to the PDF with the listing of the Arbors. These pictures do not include the Shaper Spindles, Router Chucks or SawSmith Arbors.

There was an error in the labeling of 12 031 and 22 031 in previous postings of the above picture. Anyone having saved it should replace it with this one.

The picture below shows the Lower Blade Guard you are using on my Model 10ER. Notice I have the saw blade on an earlier version of the 5/8" Arbor with a machined washer first followed by the blade and than the machined spacer. My Lower Blade Guard does not have the aluminum spacer in this instance. That Arbor P/N 12 031 has a shorter, by 1/8", base length than the 5/8" Universal or Molder/Dado Arbor P/N 505506 you are using. With the spacing of the quill/spindle differences of the Model 10ER and the Mark VII you may still need the spacer in the Lower Blade Guard if using the 5/8" Universal Arbor for saw blades. All that being said you could still get a 5/8" Saw Blade Arbor P/N 555321 for use on your Mark VII. It may still need to have the spacer in the lower guard depending on where the blade is positioned in the guard by the arbor. The 1-1/4" Arbor P/N 505511 puts the blade 1-1/4" out from the base end of the arbor. The 5/8" Arbor P/N 555321 puts the blade 1-1/2" out from the base end of the arbor. The 5/8" Universal Arbor P/N 505506 puts the blade 1-11/16" out from the base end of the arbor with the machined washer first. All three of these arbors, which are for use on the Mark 5 aka Mark V 500, will put the blade at different positions relative to the quill end.

Mike, I will tell you I have never owned a 1960's Mark VII so I can only go on what I have learned about them. Others who own them can give more specific information about their differences compared to a Mark 5. I do know a lot about Shopsmith Arbors.

I hope we haven't overloaded you with too much information.

Arbors page 2 - labeled.jpg

505628 on 10ER.jpg

Arbors page 1 - labeled.jpg

miken

chapmanruss wrote
If you checked out the link br549 provided in a previous post you should have found two PDF's in my post.

Yes, I have those pdf's, but will reference the pictures in this thread in the future.

chapmanruss wrote
With the spacing of the quill/spindle differences of the Model 10ER and the Mark VII you may still need the spacer in the Lower Blade Guard if using the 5/8" Universal Arbor for saw blades.

Yes I do need the guard spacer. The arbor looks like it sits back further on the 10ER than the VII. See my picture below as compared to yours above.

chapmanruss wrote
The 5/8" Arbor P/N 555321 puts the blade 1-1/2" out from the base end of the arbor.

Yes, I know the picture below doesn't show it well, but 1 1/2" basically will put my blade where the first washer (arbor spacer) is now. If it does fit in the guard, it would be uncomfortably close. I may just stick with what I have. I don't see a real benefit to switching to the 555321 after all.

chapmanruss wrote
I hope we haven't overloaded you with too much information.

Nope. I am catching on slowly, and I keep coming back to my posts to review.

Thanks again, Mike -

chapmanruss

Sorry I didn't have a picture of the Lower Blade Guard on a Mark to show its spacing. Having it on my Model 10ER is like comparing apples to oranges. The Quill Assemblies are different between the Model 10's and the Mark 5 and Mark VII which both have the spindle knob. That's the part under the 2 of the tape measure in your picture above. It adds additional distance between the mounting collar of the guard and where the blade ends up on the Mark series tools.

miken

chapmanruss wrote Sorry I didn't have a picture of the Lower Blade Guard on a Mark to show its spacing. Having it on my Model 10ER is like comparing apples to oranges.

No problem at all. I learned what I needed to know, and appreciate your help.

Funny coincidence, you are located near Portland Oregon, and I am located near Portland Maine. :)

chapmanruss

Portland Oregon is named after Portland Maine. It was decided by a coin toss and if the coin had landed the other side up I would be leaving near Boston Oregon.

StevenAyres

An idea that hasn't yet been explored in this thread is blade choice for the Mark VII. To use the original system (aluminum guard as pictured below, carriage lock aligning the blade to the table slots), you'll definitely prefer to use the original short arbors and 9" blades by Magna. Those blades come available frequently on Ebay and such for not much money, they're of high quality for their time and sharpen up well. I haven't seen any carbides, but having the standard blades sharpened is inexpensive too.

The second photo is of the same setup (also 9" blade) using a 3D-printed guard I recently purchased through the Facebook Shopsmith User Group. It will take the 12" sanding discs, whether cast aluminum, flat steel or conical, and uses a set of bolt-in spacers to provide for whatever arbor you need. This allows me to use the 10" Magna blades (including carbides) in the Mark VII system. If you like another blade, your sharpening service can probably bore it out for the short arbor.

Mark VII blade setup.jpg

Mark VII with all-purpose guard.jpg