Electric question

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:25 am

[quote="a1gutterman"]Are these two black wires 8ga? Does the 40 amp breaker connect to both hot bars in the breaker panel? If so, your circuit was relying on the metal boxes/metal conduit for the neutral/ground. If it were me, I wood make sure to add TWO 8ga wires]

Also it is stranded and therefore more 'pullable' through a condiut.

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:49 am

ANOTHER ALSO. Depending on how old the existing wire is, it may be a good idea to just replace it with new. Use the old wire to pull in the new wire, while some one feeds the new wire in at the electrical box.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:53 am

One thing that has not been explicitly suggested is to use #8 from exist breaker panel to old compresser box location. As has been suggested, add additional #8 for neutral and ground.
Replace 'box' at old compressor location with a small breaker panel. It should have 40A breaker(2 pole) on incoming side. Add a 30A(2 pole) breaker for #10 wire to heater. Add any 115v or 230v circuits you may need.

This satisfies Tim's warning about different size conductor on a circuit.

The addition of a ground wire from original breaker panel to old compressor location is not necessary IF the conduit provides good 'metal to metal" contact.

BTW Does the 'existing conduit' resemble a 'pipe' or a flexible spiral shaped metal tube? If does resemble a spiral shaped tube. all this talk about 'adding wire to conduit' for all intents and purposes impossible!

reible · Post by **reible** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:34 am

Hi,

This may not be what you want to hear but...

I think the best solution is to get someone to do the work for you who knows not only the national but state/county/city/township codes which by the way can be quite different even town to town. The person should be licensed and bonded to work in your area. Permits should be obtained and inspections done. It is the right thing to do.

If anything were to happen because of the heater and they found it did not meet code the insurance company can choose to not pay the claim... if anyone is injured well........ equipment losses........

One option they have in our area is if you want to do it yourself they offer a short course followed by a test... once you pass the test then you can do your own wiring for a period of something like 5 years... You pull the permits and they the local authorities then review your plan and will inform you of anything that needs to be changed. When you have finished the wiring they do an inspection and have correct anything "wrong" and bingo you have a legally wired heater.

Of course you can do as you see fit.

Ed

cincinnati · Post by **cincinnati** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:33 pm

Thanks so much for your help.
One the way home from work I stopped in to an Electrical supply close to my house. I was going to "play it safe" and continue the wiring with the 8ga. I ran past the workers at the supply house what I was doing and they advised to not use 8ga at all. Only 10ga. Said bigger is not always better. 8ga may not let the breaker trip if a problem happened with the heater. Something about the resistance the 8ga would or would not let happen????

Thought I would add this for an FYI to everyone.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:56 pm

I would change supply houses as that one is filled with smoke.

However going to 8 gauge instead of 10 would be money wasted.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:36 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:I would change supply houses as that one is filled with smoke.

However going to 8 gauge instead of 10 would be money wasted.

They also need a manure removal system. That bit about 'too big wires not allowing breakers to trip' is PURE B---S---! The decision re#10/#8 needs to consider the previous posts on this thread. There are good reasons/methods to apply here. Money wasted? You are adding less than 50 ft(x3).!

Bottom line: There are options. Best one is new small breaker box at old compressor location and new #10 to heater on 'new' 30A circuit. Costs more, but leaves with you later options.

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:39 am

reible wrote:Hi,

This may not be what you want to hear but...

I think the best solution is to get someone to do the work for you who knows not only the national but state/county/city/township codes which by the way can be quite different even town to town. The person should be licensed and bonded to work in your area. Permits should be obtained and inspections done. It is the right thing to do.

If anything were to happen because of the heater and they found it did not meet code the insurance company can choose to not pay the claim... if anyone is injured well........ equipment losses........One option they have in our area is if you want to do it yourself they offer a short course followed by a test... once you pass the test then you can do your own wiring for a period of something like 5 years... You pull the permits and they the local authorities then review your plan and will inform you of anything that needs to be changed. When you have finished the wiring they do an inspection and have correct anything "wrong" and bingo you have a legally wired heater.

Of course you can do as you see fit.

Ed

Ed gives good advice. If you are unsure of your abilities you should follow that advice. In my state, any homeowner may do his own electrical installation. No testing is required. Permits and inspections ARE required. I have done a fair share of wiring, including my entire home when I built it. That includes wiring the well, septic pump system, the breaker panels, underground conduit, meter box and all. That includes the supply lines from the power companies transformer to Romex type wire in the walls and THHN in conduit mounted to concrete walls. I do knot know all the codes or all the terms, but I have learned what needs to be done and how to do it. I do have a friend that is a licensed electrician and ask him for advice when I need it. I have even had him "inspect" my work before calling for inspections. Wiring is knot that difficult, and I am sure that Cin can do it.

cincinnati wrote:Thanks so much for your help.
One the way home from work I stopped in to an Electrical supply close to my house. I was going to "play it safe" and continue the wiring with the 8ga. I ran past the workers at the supply house what I was doing and they advised to not use 8ga at all. Only 10ga. Said bigger is not always better. 8ga may not let the breaker trip if a problem happened with the heater. Something about the resistance the 8ga would or would not let happen????

Hi Cin,
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. What I said about wire size was told to me by both my electician friend (over 40 years in the trade) and an Washington State Labor and Industries electrical inspector. Do what feels comfortable to you. Replacing the 8ga wire with 10ga is one way to go, as I already mentioned. All that I will add is that what I said about leaving the 40amp breaker in place and adding a smaller breaker panel at the old compressor location and then continueing on with several smaller circuits WILL pass an inspection and give you more potential. Replacing the 8ga wire with 10ga will get you only the heater circuit. There is always more then one (good/right) way to skin a cat.

cincinnati · Post by **cincinnati** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:31 pm

Thanks all

I am going to just run a new line 10ga. That will solve everything.

I also asked the question on another forum and received a lot of different opinions. My guess code is different in each area so the reason for all the right but different answers.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:35 pm

cincinnati wrote:Thanks all

I am going to just run a new line 10ga. That will solve everything.

I also asked the question on another forum and received a lot of different opinions. My guess code is different in each area so the reason for all the right but different answers.

KISS:p

GOOD LUCK DAVE(?)