Help! Speed dial stripping out....

[Mullet]

Hello ya'll,

I need some help from you experienced SS veterans. I have a Mk V (500) that i bought used, and have been going through the machine, replacing parts (speed gear in the powerhead) and learning/using it. i was ripping ply when i noticed the speed dial sticking a little while ramping the machine down, prior to shut off. then ramping up when smoothly and only stiffened a little here and there while turning it. Well, i was dialing the speed down to shut off and it got stiff at "D" speed, so i thought it was some sawdust, so i turned it harder (not that much) and it free spun..... When i removed the dial, the small cast gears were stripped, which i figured was due to its age. See:

Back of old dial

IMG_7604.jpg (45.02 KiB) Viewed 4390 times

back of old dial2

IMG_7605.jpg (83.89 KiB) Viewed 4390 times

So i ordered a new speed dial and installed today. SAME ISSUE, except i didnt force it when i felt it stiffen up. Then i went up and down (machine on) to feel it out, trying to troubleshoot.

so i pulled the new dial off and found similar stripping to the cast gear on back:

back of new gear1

IMG_7609.jpg (86.76 KiB) Viewed 4390 times

new gear 2

IMG_7610.jpg (48.8 KiB) Viewed 4390 times

new gear 3

IMG_7611.jpg (69.6 KiB) Viewed 4390 times

so i looked at everything i could figure. Removed the moon gear and pulled the backplate of the dial, all looked good (as far as i could tell).

But did noticed that i couldnt dial down past "D".

And from a top view, it appeared the backplate w/ moon gear may be protruding slightly on the right, but i'm not sure.

I do not understand this - Can anyone help?

Below are additional photos of the backplate/moon gear (dont know the tech name) and the inside where the spead gear i replaced is.

looked crooked on right to me

IMG_7606.jpg (44.47 KiB) Viewed 4390 times

backplate/moon gear 1

IMG_7614.jpg (52.59 KiB) Viewed 4390 times

backplate/moon gear 2

IMG_7615.jpg (63.91 KiB) Viewed 4390 times

backplate/moon gear 3

IMG_7612.jpg (98.85 KiB) Viewed 4390 times

inside powerhead

IMG_7607.jpg (83.98 KiB) Viewed 4390 times

Anyone seen this before? I'm not sure what the problem is or what to do.

Thank everyone!

[ehbowen]

Hello ya'll,

I need some help from you experienced SS veterans. I have a Mk V (500) that i bought used, and have been going through the machine, replacing parts (speed gear in the powerhead) and learning/using it. i was ripping ply when i noticed the speed dial sticking a little while ramping the machine down, prior to shut off. then ramping up when smoothly and only stiffened a little here and there while turning it. Well, i was dialing the speed down to shut off and it got stiff at "D" speed, so i thought it was some sawdust, so i turned it harder (not that much) and it free spun..... When i removed the dial, the small cast gears were stripped, which i figured was due to its age.

[...]

Anyone seen this before? I'm not sure what the problem is or what to do.

Thank everyone!

Hard for me to tell from pictures and I'm fairly new at this, but it looks as if your quadrant is already as far as it will go in the low speed direction. Which means that your high speed (and in fact all of your speeds) are off. Look up performing a "high speed adjustment" on your machine...I'll search for the link and edit it in after I post this.

Once you get the high speed set right and the stop in position, everything else in the speed control should work properly.

Edit To Add: PDF of instructions: https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/down ... p?id=50374

This is the post I got it from; has link to a Sawdust Session video: https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/view ... nt#p272172

[DLB]

What ehbowen is saying about high speed adjustment is correct, and may explain why your low speed is 'bottoming out' at "D." But it would not cause the gears on the back of the handle stripping.

The gear on the handle drives the idler gear which in turn spins the speed indicator dial. They don't have anything to do with actual speed, they just control the indicator. I would start by taking the speed control out and making sure that the idler spins freely around the long set screw with the lock nut. Assuming that's good remove the indicator dial and look for any abnormal wear or anything resisting its movement. Also make sure that the shaft that the handle attaches to (worm gear on the other end) is not moving in and out more that a small amount. It has a small snap ring that sometimes slips out of its groove.

There is an eBay seller that rebuilds these handles with a steel gear. But I think it is more important to determine what is causing the aluminum gear to fail than to put in a stronger gear. I apply wax to the back of my dial and to the wear points on the casting whenever I have the control out, but I don't take it out just to wax. The gears should turn with only moderate resistance.

From the pics - I agree that the handle was on crooked and that the control itself seems slightly cocked. Also, in the speed dial does not seem centered around the control though this may be a camera angle thing. More pics may be needed when you get it apart.

- David

[JPG]

The small snap ring is there.

We need to determine why the knob is cocked. The wear occurs at the location adjacent to the set screw. That results from the idler gear tracking close to the inner end of the knob gear. Is it possible the worm gear shaft is bent causing the cock.

Regardless I highly recommend the steel gear fix.(assuming the set screw hole is tapped!)

I am curious about the condition of the shaft in the area of the set screw dimple.

We need to ignore the moon gear until the damage cause is determined. I do not think it is a factor except possibly misleading actual speed setting(once the knob comes off it can free float).

[Mullet]

Thanks guys for the Quick response. It’s a,axing how your anxiety and sense of urgency increase, when this occurs, and your into a project! LOL. Especially when this is my primary big tool.

I took everything apart and inspected, reset my high speed(working great)!

I noticed when actuating the gear mechanism by hand that I have a slight sticking at one point in the revolution.
Ha4d to tell for sure, but I believe I may have a slightly bent worm gear shaft, from what I see at a top view and the slight catching/rub when turning.

Still have some play in the new handle due to the slight stripping on the handle gear.

Ordered the steel gear handle on eBay and will order a new worm gear. Going to try and continue to use till the current handle strips out. Lol

Thanks again for everyone’s input and quick assistance! This forum is Outstanding!

[edma194]

I had to do the high speed adjustment on my first Shopsmith, a 1954 Greenie. Didn't have a tachometer then, and don't have one now, but I've had a little success using an audio analyzer phone app to check out my Power Pro after reading this article:
https://hackaday.com/2018/02/08/the-tac ... martphone/

It's not all that convenient but with the app I loaded on my phone I have been able to verify that the speed shown on the control panel is pretty accurate.

[chapmanruss]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the condition of the "Idler Gear" between the Speed Control Knob and the Indicator Ring. In your picture it looks either like it has damaged teeth or stuck on aluminum from the damaged Speed Control Knob gear. It should be replaced if damaged or cleaned off. Remember the Indicator Ring needs to be set at the proper point (speed indication) before putting the Speed Control Knob back on.

[Mathew23]

Thanks guys for the Quick response. It’s a,axing how your anxiety and sense of urgency increase, when this occurs, and your into a project! LOL. Especially when this is my primary big tool.

I took everything apart and inspected, reset my high speed(working great)!

I noticed when actuating the gear mechanism by hand that I have a slight sticking at one point in the revolution.
Ha4d to tell for sure, but I believe I may have a slightly bent worm gear shaft, from what I see at a top view and the slight catching/rub when turning.

Still have some play in the new handle due to the slight stripping on the handle gear.

Ordered the steel gear handle on eBay and will order a new worm gear. Going to try and continue to use till the current handle strips out. Lol

Thanks again for everyone’s input and quick assistance! This forum is Outstanding!

Have you solved your problem I have some questions about this too, but reading the comments I still don't really understand the solution

[chapmanruss]

Mathew23,

Are you having a problem with a Mark V Speed Control? If so, can you describe what is the problem. Including pictures helps a lot in showing what is going on.

This is your second post since joining today and both are on old threads, so I am wondering what you are needing help with. Although old threads may have a similar problem it can be better to start your own thread with what you need help with. Some of the members posting in older threads may no longer be active and therefor will not respond.

[HopefulSSer]

Mathew23,

Are you having a problem with a Mark V Speed Control? If so, can you describe what is the problem. Including pictures helps a lot in showing what is going on.

This is your second post since joining today and both are on old threads, so I am wondering what you are needing help with. Although old threads may have a similar problem it can be better to start your own thread with what you need help with. Some of the members posting in older threads may no longer be active and therefor will not respond.

His other post was link spam...