ZCI and the quill
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ZCI and the quill
One good point of the Shopsmith table saw is the quill for (micro) adjustments. On the other hand, for obvious reasons, moving the quill is not possible with a standard, fixed, zero clearance insert. So, has anyone tried to make one that moves with the quill and blade? I have in mind, for instance, making use of the spring/column setup of the bottom blade (510++) guard, but otherwise replacing or modifying the back with a support for an insert, and something abutting against the table to keep the insert at the appropriate height. One would need to make the insert 1/2 inch narrower, say, than a standard insert, so that it has room to move, and also modify the shape of its front (obviously, there would be space). Or does this seem like an un-good, bad, terrible idea? [Apologies if this has been addressed in the forum before - I have not seen it.] I have had similar 'quill' thoughts for sled use, btw, but that modification seems much easier - not that, cough, I have even made a sled...
- Ed in Tampa
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Re: ZCI and the quill
Sounds interesting! In fact if you can perfect it, it would also solve a problem with inserts when the table is tilted for bevel cuts. Sounds like a money maker.
Re: ZCI and the quill
If you do this, take pictures of progress and do not post them anywhere. When it works patent it. You can always modify/improve your design but no one can use it.
Then you can post it here.
Then you can post it here.
- dusty
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- Location: Tucson (Wildcat Country), Arizona
Re: ZCI and the quill
I think I understand what you are contemplating BUT I don't see it as all that beneficial. I make my own ZCI inserts and they are ZCI from a limited amount of time. The blade slot does tend to grow. If I truly need zero clearance, I just cut a new ZCI.
I'll be waiting and watching to see what you come up with.
I just wish that Shopsmith would put some serious engineering effort into a new lower saw guard; first to address dust collection and then maybe to implement changes such as what you have in mind.
I'll be waiting and watching to see what you come up with.
I just wish that Shopsmith would put some serious engineering effort into a new lower saw guard; first to address dust collection and then maybe to implement changes such as what you have in mind.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Re: ZCI and the quill
So this would be to allow positioning of a cut by using the quill instead of moving the fence? I think micro adjustment of the fence would be more useful and Shopsmith should put their efforts toward that end. I met one guy who was in love with an Incra fence system on his Shopsmith. Maybe they can work out something like that, or a DRO.
Ed from Rhode Island
510 PowerPro Double Tilt:Greenie PowerPro Drill Press:500 Sanding Shorty w/Belt&Strip Sanders
Super Sawsmith 2000:Scroll Saw w/Stand:Joint-Matic:Power Station:Power Stand:Bandsaw:Joiner:Jigsaw
1961 Goldie:1960 Sawsmith RAS:10ER
510 PowerPro Double Tilt:Greenie PowerPro Drill Press:500 Sanding Shorty w/Belt&Strip Sanders
Super Sawsmith 2000:Scroll Saw w/Stand:Joint-Matic:Power Station:Power Stand:Bandsaw:Joiner:Jigsaw
1961 Goldie:1960 Sawsmith RAS:10ER
Re: ZCI and the quill
Ed,edma194 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:12 pm So this would be to allow positioning of a cut by using the quill instead of moving the fence? I think micro adjustment of the fence would be more useful and Shopsmith should put their efforts toward that end. I met one guy who was in love with an Incra fence system on his Shopsmith. Maybe they can work out something like that, or a DRO.
Yeah, I agree with you. I second that a micro-adjust on the fence would be very nice. Incra is one way to do this, but I keep thinking I will shoehorn a DRO to my 520 fence sometime and use that instead. Perhaps someday I can get around to this. I mean the Shopsmith quill is an adjust, but doesn't really give you micro-adjust capability anyway so I have always wondered how adjusting the quill for tablesaw cuts is helpful. However, the adjustable ZCI insert idea from Peter sounds rather interesting as a concept.
RF Guy
Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
Re: ZCI and the quill
DRO? Digital Readout? Or?RFGuy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:56 pm I second that a micro-adjust on the fence would be very nice. Incra is one way to do this, but I keep thinking I will shoehorn a DRO to my 520 fence sometime and use that instead. Perhaps someday I can get around to this. I mean the Shopsmith quill is an adjust, but doesn't really give you micro-adjust capability anyway so I have always wondered how adjusting the quill for tablesaw cuts is helpful. However, the adjustable ZCI insert idea from Peter sounds rather interesting as a concept.
I agree that a micro-adjust on the fence would be a useful upgrade. The utility of the quill feed (I normally use this method) is perhaps greater on 500 and pre-500 machines. For me, the fence was more difficult to set with precision and older blades sometimes had enough runout that those two factors could lead to some error between what I measured for the setup and what I got. So I would test cut and adjust with the quill feed when I needed precision. Even with a 520/M7 fence and better blades I at least think I can make those small tweaks better and easier with the quill adjust.
- David
Re: ZCI and the quill
David,DLB wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 5:59 pm DRO? Digital Readout? Or?
I agree that a micro-adjust on the fence would be a useful upgrade. The utility of the quill feed (I normally use this method) is perhaps greater on 500 and pre-500 machines. For me, the fence was more difficult to set with precision and older blades sometimes had enough runout that those two factors could lead to some error between what I measured for the setup and what I got. So I would test cut and adjust with the quill feed when I needed precision. Even with a 520/M7 fence and better blades I at least think I can make those small tweaks better and easier with the quill adjust.
- David
Yes, I was referring to Ed's comment on a DRO (digital read out). When discussion came up on Shopsmith table systems a couple years ago, I thought there were one or two forum members who actually preferred the 500 table system and fence over the 510/520 version. I wonder if that is still the case? I haven't used a 500 ever, but I know I had issues with my 510 fence being persnickety so I guess I have gotten so accustomed to my 520 fence being rock solid now that I forget about it. I guess if I was still using my 510 fence then I could see some type of adjustment mechanism being useful for tablesaw cuts. I was just trying to point out that fine adjustments through the quill seem problematic to me, but maybe that is just me as my fingers aren't calibrated. I think what one really wants/needs is a micro-adjust and it seems like the most logical place to put that is the fence as Ed pointed out.
I still like the concept that Peter suggested though of trying to attach it to the lower saw guard so that it moves with the quill. Alas, I guess we will have to put it on the wishlist for Shopsmith along with a re-designed lower saw guard that doesn't leak sawdust and has a 4" dust port option.
RF Guy
Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
Re: ZCI and the quill
Want micro adjustability of the quill? Just get a feeler gauge and insert the required thickness gauge between the quill bumper ring and the headsstock.
Gale's Law: The bigger the woodworking project, the less the mistakes show in any photo taken far enough away to show the entire project!
Re: ZCI and the quill
Alan,
Thanks. Good point. Isn't it kind of hard to do this in practice though? You have to stoop down to see under the main table and insert a feeler gauge to adjust the quill in/out with the feeler gauge. Not saying it can't be done, but seems like a lot of work for trying to sneak up on a cut I would think.
RF Guy
Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor