Mark V Model 500, Serial #321013 makes Bad metal-scraping noise.

[Mark3538]

Hello, people. I'm new to Shopsmith, and so far,
I Love the plentiful information that's available on the website.
OK, I acquired this machine just a few days ago, from a guy who said it "needed work".
It makes an ugly screeching noise, sorta' like metal-on-metal or even fingernails on a chalkboard.
He thought it might be motor bearings.
I've now removed the GE 3/4HP motor, and it runs nice and smooth and quietly by itself.
No motor bearing problem, me thinks.

parts 11 9.jpg (45.34 KiB) Viewed 1785 times

IMG_20230813_140425864 9.jpg (97.61 KiB) Viewed 1785 times

IMG_20230813_145313901 9.jpg (197.75 KiB) Viewed 1785 times

Hand-turning the SPINDLE KNOB (65) (not shown, with the POLY BELT (55) still attached)
makes all of that assembly turn smoothly and quietly.
Hand-turning the SPEED CONTROL (84) via the HANDLE (85) creates that metal-on-metal sound.
Seems like the SPEED CONTROL (84) and/or the (ROUND THING WITH TEXT) (77)
and/or the HEADSTOCK CASTING (67) are rubbing against each other.
With that picture of the insides, can ya' see anything that needs a correction?
HOW to disassemble those parts, to figure out what's rubbing / making some Ugly noise?
I did rotate that SPEED CONTROL (84), looking thru the hole; couldn't see how to remove it.
Note that this machine does not have the (PLASTIC?) On/Off switch (130 / 130a).
The On/Off is a metal toggle switch with four attached wires.
Thanks.
Mark3538

[JPG]

Thru that small hole under the "W" in saw joint insert a 3/32? hex wrench to loosen the set screw securing the knob to the worm gear shaft.

It may be the knob rubbing against the outer dial - if so there should be some wear marks.

I suggest lubricating the control sheave and a single drop of oil at the worm gear/casting gap.

Actually a complete lubrication should be done.(control sheave and floating sheave).

[DLB]

It doesn't make much difference, but your drawing is for a "C" headstock and your pictures are of a "B." The SN and 3/4 HP motor indicate an early version, a "Greenie" that's no longer green from ~1956. If it has not been upgraded, this means it has a "Gilmer" belt rather than Poly V. That gets into quite a few more internal differences. But none that I can think of relating to the speed control. I think of the Gilmer as similar to an automotive timing belt, it will not allow any rotational slip between the Idler shaft and main shaft. While a Poly V is more like a modern automotive fan belt and will allow some slippage.

Your pictures, first one after the diagram, shows what looks like metal to metal wear (galling) on the back side of the speed indicator dial. But does the noise only occur while adjusting speed? If it occurs while running normally I'd guess there is another problem as well.

- David

[br549]

The type of noise you described sounds like what I heard when my button bearing needed replacing. If it is the problem, yours may be too far gone to save, but lubricating the control sheave (thru hole seen in same picture) and allowing machine to stay in drill press position overnight will let oil soak into that bearing.

Here is a link to my repair story: viewtopic.php?t=19133&start=20

[Mark3538]

Thanks, JPG, for that clue.
I had looked thru that hole before, couldn't see any allen key, but looking closer found it.

DLB, I got that Parts Diagram from
https://www.shopsmith.com/service/heads ... iagram.htm
Where can I find a similar drawing for THIS machine?

Yes, some parts do have some Green paint coloring, so I guess This is an old "Greenie".
Yes, the other belt (not shown) is a Gilmer belt.
While it's all easily accessible, I've lubed the reachable parts, and dug sawdust / crap from any gear channels.
The QUILL FEED didn't, but now slides nicely.

BR549, that BUTTON BEARING has no play in it, seems tight. And the IDLER SHAFT SHEAVE (109) now slides nicely.

83 n 96 parts 7.jpg (68.58 KiB) Viewed 1628 times

Looks like half of that (SPRING DIAL?) part (83) broke off. I did not find any piece that had broken off.
And that NUT (96) was only hand-tight. That just seems curious to me.

I cannot see a LOT of Galling on any of these parts:

IMG_20230816_170529416 7.jpg (88.82 KiB) Viewed 1628 times

IMG_20230816_170549128 7.jpg (124.15 KiB) Viewed 1628 times

IMG_20230816_171614163 7.jpg (67.02 KiB) Viewed 1628 times

The WORM GEAR (87) looks OK, but the QUADRANT ASSEMBLY (86) looks worn.

86 n 87 parts.jpg (39.7 KiB) Viewed 1628 times

And there is some Play where (86) can slide sideways.

gaps 9.jpg (123.45 KiB) Viewed 1628 times

There is some evidence of Galling on (86) where it apparently rubbed against the IDLER SHAFT SHEAVE (109),
but there's little or no wear showing on that (109).

86 galling.jpg (57.51 KiB) Viewed 1628 times

Previously, the noise was Really BAD as soon as the machine was turned on.
I also heard the metal-on-metal before powering on, when just turning the Speed dial.
I've since learned that the Speed should never be adjusted until the motor shaft is moving.
Now, after reassembly, it seems to work, with None of that Bad metal-on-metal noise, but it's still quite loud.
Is it s'posed to be this loud? The video shows Slow to (almost) Fast. It was scaring me.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qlf4bgpt ... 09wal&dl=0

Yes, we saw a part of the V-belt falling off. And strings from the belt are now hanging out.
OK, the belt Needs replacement. I have no idea when this thing was last working well.
Heck, it is 67 years old, but that's still younger than me.

Thanks very much for your assistance here, people.
Mark3538

[JPG]

Noise is "typical".

Suggest new quadrant, but, fix arms etc. on speed control. They are splayed. Replace pivot roll pin with bolt.

Somebody refer him to Bill Mayo's fix.

[benmcn]

Here is Bill Mayo’s fix

[JPG]

Thank You

Bill RIP!!!

[br549]

Glad to hear you've made progress.

For comparison, here is what my 1980 Mark V 500 with 1 1/8 h.p. motor sounds like:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqiro6j9ikqly ... g.mp4?dl=0

[DLB]

DLB, I got that Parts Diagram from
https://www.shopsmith.com/service/heads ... iagram.htm
Where can I find a similar drawing for THIS machine?

There is a great deal of older information, including manuals and diagrams, linked in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=185690#p185690 Go to 'My Google Drive' then open '1954+ Mark 5' This is one of several threads pinned to the top of Maintenance and Repair, there is a wealth of information there.

I think the Gilmer headstocks are a bit louder than Poly V. The quill for both is driven by the Drive Sleeve, but it is metal to metal on Gilmer. IIRC there is a nylon or plastic piece on that interface that is meant to quiet the drive some, but it wasn't available when I tried to buy one about 40 years ago and I think it still isn't. I'm not sure how much it helps, mine was bad when I got my Greenie. (I bought a Poly V Drive and Ring because I was using a newer manual... ) Other possible contributors to noise are bearings and warn moving sheaves, they should be a good fit on the shafts. Also the Gilmer belt tightening procedure is different, the belt usually runs with less belt tension.

- David