Kreg Edge Loose Tenon Tool

[roy_okc]

The first of the non-Festool domino tools was announced this afternoon, the Kreg Edge. $500 to include one battery and charger or $450 bare. Targeting shipping this fall. Looks like they're trying to attract the casual woodworker, rather than more serious with some obvious design decisions to save money, such as touting chip slots over dust collector port. https://youtu.be/R1poQSdKjbk?si=mqTUwAzE-rSJ0RJg

With Festool's patent expiring next month, I'm guessing that there will be others showing up soon.

[RFGuy]

Thanks for posting this Roy. I do like that there is finally some real competition for the Festool Domino, so I applaud them for bringing this to market. It looks like a near exact copy of a Festool Domino, though it does look quite bit more bulky than the Festool Domino. The smaller Festool df500 is easy to work with in the hands. It only does the smaller tenon sizes. This Kreg copycat appears to only do the smaller tenon sizes as well. While I haven't used the larger Festool df700 that does larger tenon sizes, it is definitely bigger and bulkier making it a little awkward to use. I wonder why Kreg made this tool so beefed up? It looks like you would need some real gorilla paws to hold it and use it. I could be wrong, so I will have to wait until I see it in the store later this year to try it out. The fence and etc. look very similar to what Festool has so I expect it will work well from this aspect. IMHO, the no dust collection ability is dumb, but that is just me. Perhaps they intend this to be a tool used by finish carpenters out on the jobsite where they are too lazy to hook up dust collection to the tool. I don't know why anyone would use a tool like this in the shop without using dust collection. In the product demonstration about halfway through the video, the 2nd mortise he made looks really rough, i.e. chipout/tearout. Surprised by this. It should make flawless mortises if it is anything like the Festool Domino. Maybe this was just a fluke so I look forward to seeing more videos of this tool in action. Lastly, maybe a pet peeve of mine, but I hate spending $500 on a tool that is battery operated. Battery technology changes too quickly in the market. For my shop, I would prefer a cord over cordless always for this level of tool. Yes, I know you have to get a cord out and manage a dust hose, but I am used to that and don't mind it. I prefer to have a tool that will last as long as my lifetime in the shop, rather than something that in perhaps 10 years there is no replacement battery for it. Okay, enough complaints. Like I said, I still like that someone has taken on the Festool Domino and really hope someone here on the forum buys this thing and gives it a proper review. Of course, other woodworking tool manufacturers may come to market this year as well, so maybe wait to see which brand has the best version of this before buying.

[roy_okc]

RF Guy,

I saw in the comments of that video that it could do 5, 6, 8, and 10mm thick mortises; I don't know how that compares to the df500, which I'm sure they're targeting for features. Yeah, I'm also mixed on battery only for this particular tool brand as I don't foresee myself with any of their other battery tools, even though I am now up to 3 different brands in 18V to 20V plus another at 12V and I rarely use corded handheld tools. I'd be more interested if Ryobi or Makita, maybe Black & Decker, came out with a decent battery version, or any quality brand corded tool, in the same price zip code.

One thing I noticed when the guy was doing an actual demo is that it appeared to me that the on lever required a lot of force and/or was awkward to push. Also, it sounded to me like the motor or bearings was/were rough. But perhaps they only have some beta tools on hand at this point, conceivable with this long of a lead time.

I got the impression that they are not targeting pro users, rather newer/hobby/weekend woodworkers wanting to step up from pocket holes for example.

[MikeG]

Roy and RF Guy,
Thanks for your observations. I also watched the presentation, but decided that $500 was too much for a tool that I don't need. I don't do much finish carpentry. After using dowels, biscuits, and pocket screws I don't feel the need for another system.

I use both corded and battery powered tools and see the advantages of each. I wish there was a battery standard so that a single battery could be used with multiple manufactures.

[RFGuy]

Mike,

Hey, I totally get it. These are expensive tools, either the $500 Kreg option or the $1k+ Festool option. If what you have works, then no need to change it. The bulk of my experience over 3 decades of doing woodworking as a hobby has been biscuit joinery and dowels and to a lesser extent M&T. My complaint with biscuits is that they are too loose and don't create a tight fitting joint. It took me a while to figure out that this was due to my particular biscuit jointer that I own. I have a DeWalt and from what I understand some biscuit jointers work better than others - my DeWalt just doesn't create a tight joint. As a gift to myself, I broke down a few years ago and bought the Festool Domino (df500). I really agonized over the purchase beforehand because it is a lot of money to spend on one tool. I don't regret the purchase, but I am also NOT trying to talk anyone into it - just sharing my experience. For me, the speed is a selling point and also the dust collection on the Festool Domino. What I get with it that the other jointer solutions don't offer is the effortless ability to make one joint, like at the end of a panel, tight fitting, but then I can make the successive joints down the panel loose fitting in the horizontal axis. What this means is for doing glue-up on a large panel, e.g. desk top or table top, it is so much easier now. You can't do this easily with dowels and it is out of the question for biscuits. You can do this for M&T, but not as fast and effortless as with the Festool Domino. This works, because you only need vertical registration on loose tenons in the middle of a panel, but you'd like a tight fit vertical and horizontal on the end joints. It is definitely a luxury to own the Festool Domino and I smile every time I get to use it in my shop. At my age, finding things that bring me joy in my shop are a plus. So, while a Festool Domino might be worth $1k to me, I can certainly understand that some woodworkers may not even want to pay $100 for it. I am fine with that because we all have different ways of working in our shops and different things we enjoy to do in our shops.

[RFGuy]

Another thing to point out is about KD (knock down) capability. I have needed to add KD capability to some of the furniture I have built in the past to ease breakdown and assembly for moving. I have used cross dowels in the past and also engineered my own KD hardware. There are some KD fittings available to use with biscuit joinery, but IMHO the Connectors system from Festool looks really compelling. I haven't purchased it thus far because my next project hasn't needed them yet, but I look forward to trying them out in the future. I wrote about them at the link below in the past for anyone interested. Festool just has a really nice system for KD, but that is only important if you need KD for your projects. Some of us do from time to time.

viewtopic.php?p=305112#p305112

[RFGuy]

JK Moses has an interesting take on the new Kreg Domino knockoff. He points out that Kreg purposely didn't list it as a presale yet because he expects that follow-on patents from Festool will likely require Kreg to have to retool this product to comply or shelve it entirely. I had wondered about this myself. Will be interesting to see what happens this year...

[roy_okc]

One would hope that a major established company making a highly similar product would have carefully studied the non expiring patents. But, never know.

[RFGuy]

One would hope that a major established company making a highly similar product would have carefully studied the non expiring patents. But, never know.

Roy,

Yeah, but he makes a good point about the Bosch Reaxx tablesaw and what happened to it. Honestly, I don't know how these follow-on patents work. I have several patents myself, but they were one-offs, i.e. there never was intention of designing the patents to be layered to tack on so-to-speak in the future to extend the time period of the patent/product. So, I don't know how they work in practice or when they get revealed. Maybe Festool has additional patents queued up and will file them only this year. It might be that competitors like Kreg have to choose to go all in on a prototype product, press release it and then wait to see if Festool issues a cease and desist letter to them. Only then can they see what Festool's new patent claims are and attempt to work around them. Since Kreg did a new product launch like this months before even the potential presales this fall does make me think this is Kreg kind of testing the waters to see what Festool's response to them might be. It will be interesting if Kreg stands alone on this or if other product manufacturers are waiting in the wings to drop their Domino competing products this year.

[RFGuy]

I have always been a fan of this Brit's channel. IMHO, he always gives no nonsense feedback on woodworking tools. He seems to be very balanced in his opinions which is why I am choosing to share his video here on the new Kreg Edge. He has used a lot of Festool tools in his woodworking business over the years. He is quick to point out what he thinks Festool gets right, but even quicker to point out his grievances or nice to have features he would like to see in their tools. I think he makes some good points about the Festool Domino (both sizes) here, but also his opinion on the upcoming Kreg Edge. Like me, he also thinks the Kreg Edge looks a bit unwieldy to use. Will be interesting to see who else comes to market with a loose tenon tool this year. Innovation above and beyond what Festool has done would be great.