2nd Shopsmith suggestions??

[a1gutterman]

I have come to respect the knowledge and experience of this group so I ask the question:

If I had the choice of buying a 2nd SS (used) or a new table saw which would be the consensus of the forum? I am pleased with the performance of my 520 as a table saw (although wish it had a little more outfeed depth), but tire of the change over when I need to utilize it's other functions. A 2nd SS would allow me to keep my 520 in table saw mode. A dedicated table saw (considering the new Ridgid granite top) would allow me to easily use my current SS in all its other configurations.

Hi Major,

Regrettably, there is no cut-and-dried answer to that question. I have two table saws besides the Mark V and use them all. The 12" has a large table, and I still built an outfeed table for it. I primarily use it for large panels and building lumber like 2X4's. I use the 10" primarily for repeat cuts, especially when the Mark V is set up for other operations related to the same project. Saves doing the set-up changes. I use the Mark V for fine cuts and for projects that using the same table set-ups between modes (like the saw and the disk sander) make it handy for. Having multiple saws is nice, but you must have the room for them. If you have the room, do consider a single purpose table saw.

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with the Mark V as a table saw. It has limitations, but it was never intended to have infinite cababilities. I like what Bill Mayo pointed out about the "spare" headstock. Having two (or more) Mark V's allows you to do the things that Bill Mayo was talking about. You can build an outfeed table for the Mark V. It has already been done. On this site alone, there are at least 3 examples of such a beast.

One other thing to consider is that if your additional saw is another Mark V, you can have multiple set-ups for SPT's too, knot just table saws!

[dlbristol]

For me, the number one 1 limiting factor, Shop space. I have a 12X20 shop and that makes most of the equipment decisions. The second is my inexperience as a woodworker. I have to really work at alignment and technique, so having 1 machine to learn is helpful. lastly, change over is not an issue for me because I am pretty slow anyway. I had a football player once who insisted on cutting holes in his cleats to cut down on the weight so he could run faster! You have to be pretty fast for that to make any difference! ( he wasn't ) Thats me with change overs. It is not change overs that are the cause of my slowness. If I were to get another tool, I would go with an other SS. I would probably up grade one to 520.

[robinson46176]

With only one Shopsmith the "annoying" change over is always back to tablesaw mode for a few cuts when you are not done with the setup you are in. Maybe you screwed up a piece or made a cut and found an unacceptable defect in the wood for one piece.
I have almost always had a stand-alone tablesaw of some kind or the other since back in my early days of shop work. A small bench top saw can serve in most cases just fine. In many cases if lack of space is a killer you can stow it under a bench or other tool. Some times just having a compound miter saw can make the cut. If all else fails you "could" do it with hand tools...
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If I were starting over and could have a nice Shopsmith but only one I would want as an absolute minimum a small benchtop saw and a light benchtop drillpress. Neither would need be at all expensive. Of course I would also want handtools.
Two Shopsmiths would serve very nicely together. I would want the second to be a full or a shorty so it could serve as a saw function. If space was a killer and there was no room I'm afraid that the washing machine might end up out in a tent...
Maybe the addition of a big bay window (even without windows) would help the space crunch.
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I once read an article about a cobbler in Colorado up in the Rockies who built a tiny shop in the hills behind his cabin. Everything had to be carried in and the tiny shop IIRC was an 8' x 8'. Almost everything in the shop that was not required to sit on the floor was made to hang on the walls including the stool he sat on to work. He may have had to open the door to pass gas without blowing out the windows but he said that it was always super clean and extremely efficient.

[Ron309753]

Major Bob,

If your looking for a SPT station get a Greenie, and if you are pleased with the performance of your 520 as a table saw why get a second table saw? My recommendation would be a double-bevel sliding compound miter saw. I have a DeWalt DW718. With it I can cut 2x16 dimensional lumber at 90° and 2x12 at 45°. I rarely use the ShopSmith for cross cutting. A miter saw would be much more functional and take up much less space.

Just my two cents.

Sincerely,

Ron

P.S. I went through Basic training at Fort leonard Wood in 76. I retired as a Major in 96.

[oldc6]

Last week i found a 1986 MarkV on craigs list. a few were pictures attached to add, it looked like not too much rust on tubes. also, included the jointer, and cast table band saw..... they wanted $1000.00 for it. drove over 100 miles one way to look at setup.. unit looked good except for rust and jointer and bandsaw tables.. tube rust should mostly come out. But, the motor just buzzed. the speed control dial was broken. pork chop would not move at all. also, part of the lathe duplicator went with this deal.... Hauled unit home and opened it up today... the pork chop is stripped and the belt is chewed up. remove belt and motor runs fine. with some parts and elbow grease hope to have purring. will be a winter project. of course bandsaw needs new tires otherwise ok.... mainly wanted second unit for the bandsaw and jointer. plus love the wheels to just push it back against the wall. paid the guy four C-bills for it plus about $100.00 more from shopsmith for new parts and manuals. i have looked for about six months on craigs list to find this one. back to cleaning rust for now..........

[JPG]

Last week i found a 1986 MarkV on craigs list. a few were pictures attached to add, it looked like not too much rust on tubes. also, included the jointer, and cast table band saw..... they wanted $1000.00 for it. drove over 100 miles one way to look at setup.. unit looked good except for rust and jointer and bandsaw tables.. tube rust should mostly come out. But, the motor just buzzed. the speed control dial was broken. pork chop would not move at all. also, part of the lathe duplicator went with this deal.... Hauled unit home and opened it up today... the pork chop is stripped and the belt is chewed up. remove belt and motor runs fine. with some parts and elbow grease hope to have purring. will be a winter project. of course bandsaw needs new tires otherwise ok.... mainly wanted second unit for the bandsaw and jointer. plus love the wheels to just push it back against the wall. paid the guy four C-bills for it plus about $100.00 more from shopsmith for new parts and manuals. i have looked for about six months on craigs list to find this one. back to cleaning rust for now..........

So you bought bandsaw and jointer for $400 and got a repairable mark V as a BONUS! GOOD SHOW! I am sure it helped to know how the SS works and that it IS possible to bring it back to useful life.

I am sure you pointed out ALL the 'flaws' to the seller!:D

Again GOOD SHOW!!!!!

[oldc6]

well, so much for the winter project deal. went back out today and cleaned the bandsaw. top pulley seemed a little sticky so, took wheel off and lube bearings.... double needle bearings impressive.... then got into the jointer and cleaned and waxed. jointer also looks like it is made well.. i have a 6 1/2 craftsman bought used. never have been able to get the table to adjust evenly..... have talked to other people about it and they all say thats the way they were made... the cause and effect deal. in my past life i was an auto mechanic. every mechanical problem has a cause and that effects into a problem...... well on this markV it appears it had never been lubed at all. both sheaves were stuck...... some rust buster for a few minutes then oil and now free as can be. the moral being be sure to lube the mark V as shopsmith tells you..... if this had been done i am sure this machine would have been working fine. but, if you do not want to lube, call me i like to pick up used machines and be able to fix for a small amount and a little elbow grease.......

[JPG]

well, so much for the winter project deal. went back out today and cleaned the bandsaw. top pulley seemed a little sticky so, took wheel off and lube bearings.... double needle bearings impressive.... then got into the jointer and cleaned and waxed. jointer also looks like it is made well.. i have a 6 1/2 craftsman bought used. never have been able to get the table to adjust evenly..... have talked to other people about it and they all say thats the way they were made... the cause and effect deal. in my past life i was an auto mechanic. every mechanical problem has a cause and that effects into a problem...... well on this markV it appears it had never been lubed at all. both sheaves were stuck...... some rust buster for a few minutes then oil and now free as can be. the moral being be sure to lube the mark V as shopsmith tells you..... if this had been done i am sure this machine would have been working fine. but, if you do not want to lube, call me i like to pick up used machines and be able to fix for a small amount and a little elbow grease.......

Lack of proper lubrication of the sheaves IS the most common cause of problems. I speak from experience on my 45+ yr old 'Goldie' AND a recently acquired 510. The problems with both were caused by LACK of properly lubricating the sheaves. The quadrant gear is I believe the second most common problem(IMHO a slight design mis-alignment) and adjusting without the sheaves rotating(hi to low). The button bearing on the control sheave is another(also caused by LACK of lubrication). I HAVE experienced ALL of these. I DO believe proper lubrication would have prevented them all. Ain't hindsight wunnerful?;)

[fjimp]

[quote="JPG40504"]Lack of proper lubrication of the sheaves IS the most common cause of problems. I speak from experience on my 45+ yr old 'Goldie' AND a recently acquired 510. The problems with both were caused by LACK of properly lubricating the sheaves. The quadrant gear is I believe the second most common problem(IMHO a slight design mis-alignment) and adjusting without the sheaves rotating(hi to low). The button bearing on the control sheave is another(also caused by LACK of lubrication). I HAVE experienced ALL of these. I DO believe proper lubrication would have prevented them all. Ain't hindsight wunnerful?]

Lack of cleaning and lubrication was the sole reason the former owner of my 50th Anniversary 510 sold it. The folks had the manual yet refused to read it. A few hours of elbow grease and a few parts replaced sand I have a great machine that hums as well as my other 520. I was asked to look at another machine that was listed for a couple of months on craigs list. The fellow had never once in four years of occasional use cleaned, lubricated or used any paste wax on it. He still wanted 2,500 for it. His add dsiappeared after awhile. I will always wonder if he got his price. fjimp

[billmayo]

[quote="JPG40504"]Lack of proper lubrication of the sheaves IS the most common cause of problems. I speak from experience on my 45+ yr old 'Goldie' AND a recently acquired 510. The problems with both were caused by LACK of properly lubricating the sheaves. The quadrant gear is I believe the second most common problem(IMHO a slight design mis-alignment) and adjusting without the sheaves rotating(hi to low). The button bearing on the control sheave is another(also caused by LACK of lubrication). I HAVE experienced ALL of these. I DO believe proper lubrication would have prevented them all. Ain't hindsight wunnerful?]

I find that over 90% of my headstock repair/rebuild jobs (over 100 in the past 7 years) is due to lack of cleaning and lubrication. I normally include a bottle of Zoom Sprout Turbine Oil with each job but doubt if it will be used by most customers. However, I have not gotten any headstocks back for lack of lubrication at this time. Also, I have increased the control sheave oiling to 6-8 drops of oil in 2 steps of 3-4 drops so the oil will get to the control sheave bearing. I cycle the speed control from FAST to SLOW and back to FAST before the second oiling of the control sheave. I also recommend 3-4 drops in the motor floating sheaves and 2-3 drops on the motor shaft and key that is showing. I do all my oiling with the speed control set to FAST.

The quadrant is the next major problem area but most times, it is the lack of oil in the control sheave that caused the quadrant teeth to wear excessively or break. I find that replacing the quadrant roll pin with a 2 1/2" X #10 allen head bolt, star washers and Nylock nut helps keep the quadrant teeth from wearing excessively. I have pictures of this change if anyone is interested.