Man, is my wife mad...

[mickyd]

I think we should all consider what is written here. I don't think anyone should let their particular fandom for Shopsmith make others feel like they can't post an opinion. This is not the first time we in this site have been viewed as being one-sided. Here it is again. People have feelings, and we seem to stomp on them if their views and opinions are different than ours.

Are we one-sided? Are we really glad to have people here only as long as they share the same opinion? Do we want that?

Paul

It will always amaze me how people can view the same information differently. As I followed this thread, I was impressed how civilized the dialog was going. Other than a couple tidbits that could be "interpreted" in a couple of different ways, it is MOSTLY fact based. I say "interpreted" because unless your are in a conversation, you never know the authors intent. Writing's void of facial expression, inflection etc. I've read the SAME thing that I wrote on two different days and came up with two different interpretations.

Your question as to whether the group is one sided....I'd have to say in my opinion, NO. I think that nearly 100% of posts are OBJECTIVE. I think the group focuses on the big picture and doesn't get bogged down in some of the areas that TOTALLY torque other people off. I deal with this in my job everyday. Personally, unless I see a trend happening, there is a lot of stuff I plane ignore just because of the human element. I refuse to get worked up over things I have no control over.

There's a concept that deals with something called "Circle of Influence / Circle of Concern". If you haven't heard of it, here's a couple links that were interesting.

http://projectsteps.blogspot.com/2007/01/circle-of-influence-and-project-manager.html

Here's a video on it. The guy is a little too laid back and mellow for my tastes but it's interesting to watch.

http://www.searchengineguide.com/sage-lewis/the-world-is-a-mess-heres-what-you-can-d.php

My two cents....

[jmoore65]

I think we should all consider what is written here. I don't think anyone should let their particular fandom for Shopsmith make others feel like they can't post an opinion. This is not the first time we in this site have been viewed as being one-sided. Here it is again. People have feelings, and we seem to stomp on them if their views and opinions are different than ours.

Are we one-sided? Are we really glad to have people here only as long as they share the same opinion? Do we want that?

Paul

I don't think this discussion has been one-sided (implication being unjustifiably one-sided?) I don't think the forum in general is one-sided over customer service. I do think there are a meaningful number of stories on this site involving the helpfulness of ShopSmith customer service. I also think the majority of them cite contacting them on the phone being the best way to work with them. It seems to me the common theme of unhappy customers involves expecting ShopSmith to know they are unhappy magically or relying on email alone for communications. I don't have statistics here, just my impression of having read the stories over time.

I do recognize that people sometimes want to vent about a problem. My concern with venting, is sometimes it becomes self reinforcing or gets others riled up inappropriately. So if we can help unhappy customers move from venting to effective problem solving, the forum will be a more positively supportive place.

If someone is venting - the response I usually see is recognition of the vent, and offer to help brainstorm (or share experiences) to help solve the person's problem. You don't see many reactive attack emails against people posting problems. But I feel like there is often some gentle pressure to change the nature of the thread.

BTW - I hope I've come across in a more collaborative, problem solving way than negative. If not, I throw myself on the mercy of the court... :-)

Nick once said that he thought of woodworking as 3 dimensional problem solving. So, given a forum full of woodworkers, we all have a natural bent towards solving problems. Solving a problem (in this case, transaction problem with ShopSmith) requires understanding the problem - both the perceptions of both sides, and (if possible) the reality of the problem. So when "a customer" tells his side of the story - that is reality to him. However, "the vendor" has a side too. I find it hard to make a judgement about (as chettrick put it) "How much more screwed up is SS going to get before they go completely under?" until I really understand what happened (being aware of difference in perceptions), why ShopSmith is screwed up vs. this order being screwed up (over generalization?) and what opportunities has ShopSmith really been given to fix the problem (fairness and using best resources to solve probem).

Customers have the right to feel however they want to feel. That doesn't make it helpful for them in resolving whatever issue(s) are making them feel that way. IMHO, the saying "The customer is always right" doesn't really mean that they are "right". It means that as a business, you have to deal with the fact they *honestly believe* they are right. The reputation of a business is formed in its customer's perceptions. And as mickyd said, given an event and a bunch of people, each person will have a different view of what happened. A transaction that makes one customer happy can make another customer madder than a wet hen in traction.

I do think ShopSmith could benefit from more effective and proactive usage of electronic communication. I think a presence on this forum (like Nick used to provide) could help moderate the rumors and give participants the feeling of "being heard". They are pretty lucky to have folks representing their interests, probably more the interests of the reputation of the Mark V, providing an really valuable service in this forum.

Finally, this is way too long a post for a Wed afternoon...

Jim

[JPG]

I do not think most of 'us' consider a negative comment re ss action or lack thereof objectionable as long as it is the 'truth'.

However sometimes a person gets a little carried away and injects irrelevant emotional type statements(usually an analogy of something far worse).

This type 'overreactionary' statements is best overlooked unless dwelled upon. Then getting to the bottom/cause becomes imperative.

I have one question re the mischarging of wife's/own credit cards: What names are on each card? Are they two separate accounts? In any event, if it has not yet been resolved, another phone conversation IS necessary. If that is not successful, write and copy Bob Folkerth!

[dusty]

I do not think most of 'us' consider a negative comment re ss action or lack thereof objectionable as long as it is the 'truth'.

However sometimes a person gets a little carried away and injects irrelevant emotional type statements(usually an analogy of something far worse).

This type 'overreactionary' statements is best overlooked unless dwelled upon. Then getting to the bottom/cause becomes imperative.

I have one question re the mischarging of wife's/own credit cards: What names are on each card? Are they two separate accounts? In any event, if it has not yet been resolved, another phone conversation IS necessary. If that is not successful, write and copy Bob Folkerth!

Did the item get shipped to the address as directed by the person who placed the order? Was the correct item shipped? Was the item received in good condition? Was the charge for the item made to the account # provided at the time the order was placed?

Are we sure that Shopsmith screwed up?

[JPG]

InChettrick's original post, he stated that his wife set up her own ss account. Apparently she cannot access it(makes me think her account is not all it should be). Her 'order' got placed in his account.

Chettrick: The cause of your problems seems to be 'her' account. Concentrate on THAT! Re: missing parts, Did the shipment come from ss or a 'vendor'? To their(ss) credit, they DO fix errors.

[a1gutterman]

For the second time my wife ordered me something for my birthday. She created an account under her own name and I already have my own account. She ordered it and when it did not ship (backorder) like everything else. She could not track it.

It was placed under my account and charged to my credit card, without my permission or knowledge. I had ordered two items and when I looked for tracking, it was backordered (like everything else). I saw two items listed thinking it was a separate order for each of my two items. Turns out one of them was the thing she ordered. And it is the one getting shipped, not my stuff.

How much more screwed up is SS going to get before they go completely under?

I seem to remember a member posting something along the lines that he/she felt like SS needed to do a better job organizing their customers. IIRC, there was confusion about ordering under different names (Tim, Timothy, Timmy, Timmie, T., etc.) to the same address, which made it hard for the customer/member to track his/her order. It seems like the member thought that SS should be able to realize that these were all the same person and make sure that there was only one account set up for "all of them". Perhaps this is just the reverse of that. I wonder if someone (or maybe something, i.e., a computer???) saw that the same address was being used for two different accounts and reconciled the two accounts back into one. Who knows what has happened. chettrick, if you find out what caused this snafu, please inform us.

[chettrick]

Boy, this is getting fun...
Let me update the group on what I found and possibly answer some questions on my posts.

To start, I was venting, mainly because almost everytime I have ordered something it has been on backorder. When you order standard items and it usually is backordered, it seems to me that either they are selling the heck out of them or they are waiting to get enough orders so they can get a manufacturer to make them. Many posts have pointed in the direction of the latter. Which may also point to business not good. Worse is that there is no indication on the website that it is definately B/O. You only get an email saying that your part is ordered but nothing to say when or if it is getting shipped.

Like many, I do most of my buying online and SS is the only place that this issue for me has risen. Just about every other company I deal with along with the many companies I buy parts for my job will say upfront that your item is not available and when to expect it.

The other part about my wife being mad, or should say upset is true. I can not say to who she spoke with when she called to correct the problem, so I have contacted SS and found out by someone that quote by email:

"In regards to the account mix-up, Our system only allows an address to be entered one time, it looks at each address and clears all duplicates from the system, that is why her order shows under your account."

That answered a question but that is unheard of by me, my wife and I have duplicate accounts at some places that maintain separate accounts but same address. Along with different credit cards.

My wife stated a credit card number that it was supposedly charged to which was an old CC number that no longer is open of mine. It expired and the new number came with the new card.

The missing parts in question are being shipped to me by SS which I knew they would straighten out. Once again, I have bought parts and things from many companies and have had things missing, nothing out of the ordinary for that to happen.

Bottom line, I would like to see them develop their website to update us with B/O at time of order instead of us having to call them to find out a week later after it has not arrived yet. Also to be able to have separate accounts to same address. I am sure I am not the only man here who has a wife with her own SS and own accounts.

I am and have been a SS owner off and on since 1984 with my first SS, now I have three of them and a majority of the accessories. I don't plan on switching my gear but would like to be comfortable in knowing that the thousands of bucks invested in woodworking gear can be still usuable when somethng breaks or needs repair down the road.

[dusty]

Well, it doesn't sound like it is all straightened out yet but at least you have some idea of what went wrong.

In the future, if your wife wants to surprise you with a gift, I guess it is won't be from Shopsmith.

When you place an order, I hope you do get an email notification like this:

The details of your recently placed order are shown at right. Please take a moment to review this information carefully. If anything is incorrect, contact Shopsmith Customer Services immediately for clarification and/or resolution at…1-800-543-7586SPECIAL - 5-DAYS ONLY *ORDER CONFIRMATION OFFERSee details below.

09.05.09

ORDER DETAILShopsmith Order xxxxxxxx
You may check on the status of your order HERE

XXXXX XXXXXXXXX TUCSON, AZ xxxxx
US - United States
Phone xxx - xxx - xxxx Email dustywoodworker@hotmail.com

Customer Number xxxxxxxx
Payment Type VI - Visa
Shipping Method 18 - Standard Shipping - $ 14.49
556099 - Incra Miter V120 - 1 84.95 84.95
501634 - Setscrew - 3 2.59 7.77
513056 - Allen Setscrew - 2 0.80 1.60
514779 - Wire Retaining Clip - 1 1.11 1.11

Item(s) Total: 95.43
Shipping and Processing: 14.49
Sales Tax: 0.00
Order Total: 109.92

BTW, It appears to me that the filter hood Retaining Strap Assembly (514809) is sold as a separate item.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/partscat/dust_collectorpartslist.htm

It also appears that if you were to order the 24" Filter Hood today, it would not go on backorder:

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/itemfind.htm?item=300008&Submit=Find+Item

However, if you were to order the small Filter Hood, it would probably go on back order.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/itemfind.htm?item=514808&Submit=Find+Item

If I was ordering it, I would call 1-800-543-7586 and ask.

I know you probably already know all of this but it seemed as though it might be worth repeating.

[iclark]

"In regards to the account mix-up, Our system only allows an address to be entered one time, it looks at each address and clears all duplicates from the system, that is why her order shows under your account."

Interesting. I have 2 different SS account numbers. both of them are in my name and associated with my home address. customer support is unable to merge them.

Ivan

[iclark]

Dusty,

have you ever gotten an email like that from placing an order by phone?

Ivan