Just can't get it straight

[tango]

So this has been an ongoing problem for me for some time now. I cannot for the life of me get my rip fence aligned to my saw blade. Just the other night I re-engaged this ever-challenging problem of mine, and yet no solution.

I've aligned the rip fence as the manual suggests, I've even tried to re-align the table itself, yet nothing; it's still not aligned. I've done this more than once; in fact I've done this many many times and it always turns out the same. It's only off by 1/16th or so... from what I can tell, but its enough to make a difference.

If anyone else has endured this problem please let me know, of if there is some other alignment I haven't listed here please advise.

[dusty]

[quote="tango"]So this has been an ongoing problem for me for some time now. I cannot for the life of me get my rip fence aligned to my saw blade. Just the other night I re-engaged this ever-challenging problem of mine, and yet no solution.

I've aligned the rip fence as the manual suggests, I've even tried to re-align the table itself, yet nothing]

This is not an uncommon problem. However, more information is required.

What version of fence are we working with (500,510,520)?

Is the table alignment complete and was that difficult to accomplish? If so, what were the problems?

Has the rip fence been damaged (dropped)? If so, have you verified that it is straight using a quality straight edge?

What direction is the fence off and how much? You said 1/16" (.0625"); what accuracy level are you striving for? You should be able to easily get to within 1/64" (.015").

I have a piece of hardwood that has been milled to fit firmly in the miter track. It sits proud of the table about two inches. I use this to align my fence. I loosen the bolts that secure the fence (back off the alignment set screw if one exists). Slide the fence up against the hardwood bar and clamp it there (both ends). Apply the fence locking mechanism. Tighten the mounting bolts and screw in the set screw to just barely touch (if one exists).

Carefully un-clamp and unlock the fence. It should not move when then clamping pressures are removed.

Footnote: There was an Axiom (or was it a Postulate) that said: Two lines (objects) parallel to the same line are parallel to one another. I think this applies here! Hmmmm. Maybe it was a Theorem?

[dusty]

tango,

Make sure that the front rail is straight. If the rail is bent, even the slightest, it will make alignment very difficult to maintain.

[tango]

This is not an uncommon problem. However, more information is required.

What version of fence are we working with (500,510,520)? 510

Is the table alignment complete and was that difficult to accomplish? If so, what were the problems?

Has the rip fence been damaged (dropped)? If so, have you verified that it is straight using a quality straight edge?

What direction is the fence off and how much? You said 1/16" (.0625")]Footnote: There was an Axiom (or was it a Postulate) that said: Two lines (objects) parallel to the same line are parallel to one another. I think this applies here! Hmmmm. Maybe it was a Theorem?[/font]

What version of fence are we working with (500,510,520)? 510

Is the table alignment complete and was that difficult to accomplish? If so, what were the problems? Alignment was complete and no it wasn't too difficult, but it also didn't result in a properly aligned fence.

What direction is the fence off and how much? Blade is right on at the front of fence (closest to operator), and app. 1/16 off towards back.

Thanks for the tips, and I will try them when I later today. You truly are a a wealth of knowledge in this field.

I am working with a 510 anniversary edition.

The fence hasn't been dropped, but I've never checked it for accuracy; I usually just stare at it waving my arms, beating my chest hooting and hollering at it.

When I do attempt an alignment I loosen the two adjustment screws on the back (nearest longing mechanisms) then I align it and tighten the rear screw. Once the screws are tightened all seems fine, however, (here it comes) when I lock the mechanism the fence moves right back to where it was previous to alignment.

My thought on the matter is that table is not 90 to the blade. When I suspected this I loosened the table and tried to adjust it, but as luck would have it it doesn't really have much play.

hmmm, troubling

[dusty]

tango,

Separate the two procedures. The table alignment and the rip fence alignment are two totally separate processes. The table alignment (miter track to the blade) is the basis for all other alignments. It must be completed successfully before the rip fence alignment has a chance. Actually, that is not really true. The rip fence can be aligned to the miter track without consideration for the blade and if done carefully will also be properly aligned to the blade.

You might want to review the forum for discussions on main table alignment problems; specifically, problems caused by the trunnion holes. It seems that some of the trunnions were drilled differently than others and this caused difficulty in aligning (moving) the table.

Don't hurry to drill the holes larger. It is not necessary unless all four holes are too small and then it is not an absolute necessity. Drilling the holes only allows easier movement of the table. One pair of my trunnions have NOT been drilled and I can still complete a successful alignment.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=1769&highlight=trunnion

A comment regarding your last post. When you tighten the knob (241), the fence should move to the aligned position. Then when you secure the handle (234), the fence should not move at all. This last action is suppose to do nothing more than squeeze tight on the rear rail thus locking the fence in position.

A demonstration/test.
With both the knob and the handle loosened, place both of your thumbs against the Fence Base (235) and then grasp the front rail with the fingers of both hands. Now, apply pressure with both of your thumbs. The fence should align to the miter track. With your thumbs, move the fence back and forth. Now tighten the KNOB, leave the lever loose. Because you had pressure applied to both sides of the base, the fence should not move when you tighten the knob. It is aligned to the miter track.

Now, while watching the fence, lock the lever. The fence should not move.

[dusty]

I have not had any experience with this being a problem when locking the 510 rip fence, but the actual locking lever may be malformed. A close visual
inspection should tell for sure.

[ATTACH]6185[/ATTACH]

[tango]

Wow, that's a lot of good information; thanks.

I'll post how it goes.

Hopefully my battle with the rip fence will be coming to an end, but I can't say for sure... it has outsmarted me before

[kalynzoo]

Dusty, what a great idea. My fence is true, but that is a great way to verify.
I have been visually aligning the fence with the black recessions in the table.

[nuhobby]

I will add a point which may be quite elementary, but just to make sure it isn't overlooked.

For both the 500 and 510 fences, it is very important that the 5/32" allen-head Set Screw (on the infeed side of the Fence Base) is fully backed away from the table rail/tube during normal use and during alignment. The alignment is done via the 2 bolt/screws on the bottom of the fence. In my case I actually looked at the fence during use, decided which way I could pivot the Fence Base vs. the Fence Extrusion to improve its accuracy, and made slight changes off the table.

I also seem to recall way back (2 or more years ago) that charlese posted a very good method for aligning his 510 fence.

Good luck,

[JPG]

Dusty has given you very good advice/direction. I add the following to hopefully ensure you understand several of the 'details'(that IS where the devil resides).

1) The fence is aligned to the TABLE miter slots.l It is set parallel to them.
1a) The TABLE is set parallel to the BLADE in an entirely separate procedure. BOTH the fence and the blade must be set parallel to the miter slots in order for the fence to be parallel to the blade. Both ARE referenced to the miter slots. These separate adjustments MAY be performed in either order, but are typically done table to blade then fence to table.

2) As Dusty has said, all things MUST be straight. On a 510(or a 520) the rails are NOT adjustable to the table except in a vertical direction(early 510s are not adjustable at all)[they be the ones with holes on the front face and NO nuts inside the front edge(bolts accessed through the holes are screwed into Tapped holes on the front edge)]. If adjustable, the vertical adjustment needs to be done before the fence alignment.

3) As has been mentioned, the set screw on the right side of the clamp frame needs to be backed out so as to completely clear the rail. Removing it completely while aligning will insure it does not contaminate the process. Put it back AFTER alignment, but it still needs to NOT contact the rail. Here I deviate from Dusty's recommendation - Adjust it well AWAY from the rail. It is only used to intentionally pull the BACK of the fence out of parallel for certain rarely performed tasks.

4)There are 4 bolts that are loosened for adjusting the fence. The two in Dusty's pix are NOT the ones that align the fence to the miter slot. Those two screws hold/position the concave foot that rests on the rear rail. It needs to be adjusted AFTER the fence to miter slot procedure is performed.

5) The bolts that hold/position the fence to the front frame are accessed from the under side of the fence. They are two bolts with 5/32" hex socket heads. They need to be loosened, but the inside one needs to be finger tight(snugged up). It will act as a pivot as the fence is aligned to the miter slot. This 'inner' bolt is NOT accessible with the fence on the rail&table. Only the outer bolt is accessible from between the table front edge and the back side of the rail(from underneath the table).

6) Position the fence with the edge directly above the edge of the miter slot. The insertion of a board as Dusty suggested is a fabulous idea. Otherwise eyeball/feel it(not as accurate). Then push the fence clamp against the rail on BOTH sides of the fence and tighten the wing bolt. After verifying the fence is STILL parallel to the miter slot, from under the table tighten the outboard hex socket headed bolt(accessed between the rail and the front edge of the table). Verify again!.

7) Release the wing bolt, carefully remove the fence from the table and tighten the inner hex socket headed bolt.

8) Put the fence back on the table&rail and position the fence again directly above the miter slot and tighten the wing bolt. VERIFY the fence is still aligned parallel to the miter slot.

9) Examine the concave foot at the rear of the fence and make sure the concave foot can rest squarely on the rear rail and go down on it fully. If not, loosen the two cap bolts, finger tighten them and after re mounting and clamping the front of the fence, gently push the fence down firmly enough so as to cause the foot to align to the rear rail. Remove the fence and tighten the foot. Recheck the foot alignment.

10) With the front clamped down, slowly actuate the rear clamp lever. The rear clamp should move into the rail and draw the fence down to the rail. It should be tight just before the clamp reaches its maximum position. If not, loosen the two screws holding the rear clamp adjustment nut washer(it fits over the nut and has a hex shaped center hole). This will allow adjusting the rear clamp nut. Adjust the nut so the clamp just tightens the rear clamp as the lever approaches its maximum position. If too tight, excessive wear of the lever cam surface will occur. Too loose and the rear clamping will be inadequate. Finally retighten the two screws securing the 'hex holed' washer.

IF this does NOT make the fence parallel to the blade, then the TABLE to BLADE alignment needs to be performed. Dusty has pointed you to relevant info already. (In addition the table trunion stops should also be done to ensure the blade cuts at a right angle to the table ETC.)

Probably more than you wished for, but all these detailed adjustments ARE what gives you a properly aligned SS.

If you need 'more' help, we will be here as today.