5' Extension Tubes

[Bruce]

If it were me I would never run the jointer and the table saw at the same time. One is always taking horse power from the other at the very least.

Ed,
Your comment confused me. Do you mean actually USE both at the same time? I guess you'd need a helper to do that. If not, I don't see a problem having them both set up and ready to go. They do go together, after all. If anything, the added momemtum that the mass of the saw blade adds would help the performance of the jointer, in my opinion. And I can't imagine the jointer stealing any power from the table saw. I think a lot of users keep the jointer connected most of the time when set up for sawing.

Bruce

[reible]

Ed,
Your comment confused me. Do you mean actually USE both at the same time? I guess you'd need a helper to do that. If not, I don't see a problem having them both set up and ready to go. They do go together, after all. If anything, the added momemtum that the mass of the saw blade adds would help the performance of the jointer, in my opinion. And I can't imagine the jointer stealing any power from the table saw. I think a lot of users keep the jointer connected most of the time when set up for sawing.

Bruce

Don't mean to be confusing. What I mean is using one and having the other running at the same time. I don't want to spend a great deal of time on this but let's just take the case you mentioned of of sawing and having the jointer attached. Since momentum is a two way street, yes, for a few moments it is helping you cut but then after the rpm has gone down the motor has to work to bring both the saw blade and the jointer back up to speed which has just the opposite effect! Now you have the load caused by the wood and the load caused by the jointers mass lagging the true rpm that the motor wants to run at. And remember you have a shaft running at 1.6 times the speed of the main shaft so it is also in an "over drive" position.

As we know some people claim we/they need to go to low speed every time they start the machine. I never do that and have had my first shopsmith since 1976 and never had any major problems with it... how ever if you have both the saw and the jointer on it at the same time I'm not sure that will be the case. Do you turn back to "slow" each time before shutting the machine off? Then crank back to use it??

Like I said everyone can decide how they want to do it and what makes since for them. I just want people to think about it first.

Ed

[charlese]

Wow!!! This is just too many left and rights - up and downs to try to understand each one.

Let me say I love my 5' tubes. I use them almost daily! Usually the headstock is to the right and the extension table to the left - but not always- it depends on which way my SS is turned in my shop. I love the ability to run the tubes all the way from right to left - to slide in one or two floating tables (which usually are not screw tightened) for support of longer cross cut pieces. I also love the ability to slide the 5' tubes out of the extension table - raise or lower the main table (while leaving the floating tables float on the 5 footers - then changing the extension table (if needed) - re-insert the tubes - etc. The quick set up of a 5 foot table is occasionally very handy for a "workbench" to support assemblies. I have even (after covering the tables with a plastic tarp) stained and painted on my SS.

5 foot tubes are a great accessory!

Now to the jointer while sawing issue: I believe it is not wise to run (leave the jointer connected) while sawing and turning on and off the headstock with both saw and jointer attached. Yes I have done this, but I stopped that practice. In order to do this one MUST dial the speed control back to slow before turning off the SS each & every time. As Ed reible points out there is increased torque in this condition and the added strain on the motor/belt/shaft will cause damage if this speed change is not done. As for me, I can not be relied on to roll back the speed control each time - therefore I quit this dual operation.

Another thought here - about riping and then jointing the same board. It shouldn't be necessary to joint an edge you have just ripped. That is assuming you have a sharp saw blade and aren't going to glue to that edge. Most rip cuts with a sharp blade are almost good enough for a glue joint. Some (many) sawed edges will need a light jointing before gluing, but if the edge is not going to glued, why joint it? A little sanding will make it shine in other applications.

[Ed in Tampa]

Wow!!! This is just too many left and rights - up and downs to try to understand each one.

Let me say I love my 5' tubes. I use them almost daily! Usually the headstock is to the right and the extension table to the left - but not always- it depends on which way my SS is turned in my shop. I love the ability to run the tubes all the way from right to left - to slide in one or two floating tables (which usually are not screw tightened) for support of longer cross cut pieces. I also love the ability to slide the 5' tubes out of the extension table - raise or lower the main table (while leaving the floating tables float on the 5 footers - then changing the extension table (if needed) - re-insert the tubes - etc. The quick set up of a 5 foot table is occasionally very handy for a "workbench" to support assemblies. I have even (after covering the tables with a plastic tarp) stained and painted on my SS.

5 foot tubes are a great accessory!

Now to the jointer while sawing issue: I believe it is not wise to run (leave the jointer connected) while sawing and turning on and off the headstock with both saw and jointer attached. Yes I have done this, but I stopped that practice. In order to do this one MUST dial the speed control back to slow before turning off the SS each & every time. As Ed reible points out there is increased torque in this condition and the added strain on the motor/belt/shaft will cause damage if this speed change is not done. As for me, I can not be relied on to roll back the speed control each time - therefore I quit this dual operation.

Another thought here - about riping and then jointing the same board. It shouldn't be necessary to joint an edge you have just ripped. That is assuming you have a sharp saw blade and aren't going to glue to that edge. Most rip cuts with a sharp blade are almost good enough for a glue joint. Some (many) sawed edges will need a light jointing before gluing, but if the edge is not going to glued, why joint it? A little sanding will make it shine in other applications.

Perhaps I need to try my 5 foot tubes some more. You said you keep the aux table in the left side and your head stock on the right???? Where do you put your fence left or right of the blade?
Have you had any problems with a the floating tables causing your main table to change angle when you slide the tubes out of the aux table to raise or lower the table?
It seems like two floating tables on a end of the 5 foot tube would have enough leverage to rack the table.
Ed

[bspisak]

Ok, I took the plunge! Thanks everyone for all of your advice and comments. After thinking it through a bit, I also decided to get an additional floater and another pair of telescoping legs. That should give me quite a bit of flexibility!

Brian

[charlese]

Perhaps I need to try my 5 foot tubes some more. You said you keep the aux table in the left side and your head stock on the right???? Where do you put your fence left or right of the blade?
Have you had any problems with a the floating tables causing your main table to change angle when you slide the tubes out of the aux table to raise or lower the table?
It seems like two floating tables on a end of the 5 foot tube would have enough leverage to rack the table.
Ed

Hi Ed! Thanks for your questions.
Problems with main table angle changing? Not at all! There is only about 3 1/2 ft. between the main table and the extension table. Not enough leverage there to cause a problem. Like I said, the floating tables are usually doing just that! Floating! I don't bother to tighten up the floaters unless I'm going to attach the rip fence to one of them, or otherwise need firmness from them. Many times, I'll just tighten the screw on the front. Lazy? Maybe, but it saves walking around the SS. As I pull the tubes out to the right, I also can move the floaters closer to the main table. When the connector tubes leave the extension table they fall a little, but there is not enough weight to change the angle of the main table. There may be a little sag of the main table, but when the connectors are put back into the adjusted extension tbl., everything is back to normal. I think any "sag" is from the whole table assembly and not in the trunnions. I think the support tubes bend a very small amount and, of course, a loosened carriage lock assembly will allow the main table to move (wiggle) left and right.

Don't get me wrong! I wouldn't/don't saw with the floaters hanging on the left side of the main tbl.. If I'm going to raise/lower the main tbl. and saw without re-adjusting the ext. tbl. - I'll remove the floaters. Sometimes I have removed one of the floaters and put it on the other side of the main tbl for balance. If the floaters are completely removed for only a short time, I'll place them top down on my rubber floor mat. that way if I step on them,:o I won't wreck the wax job. Hope this is clear and I'm not rambling too much!

Where do I use the fence? Most often, to the right of the blade. If I use it on the left of the blade and I can't keep the fence on the main tbl., I'll tighten the front of the closest floater before tightening the rear and use the fence there. If we are talking about sheet goods - I'd do a complete re-adjustment, but at least the tubes and floater would be handy!

[dusty]

Which plunge did you finally decide to take, brian?

If I read the various posts correctly, your major decision was "upgrade a 500" or "buy a second Mark V 510/520".

Either way, I believe you will have a machine (or two) that will serve your crafting needs very satisfactorily. However, this will not be the end of major decisions. You are entering into a world of perpetual new innovations, many of which will be very intriguing.

Add them all to your Christmas Want List. That way no one will be able to say "I never know what you want"?

Another extension table, Extension Brackets, Outfeed Table, Overhead Pin Router, Router Table, Adjustable Stop Collars, additional Arbors, Miter Tables, Mortising Tool, Bandsaw, Jointer, Surface Planer, Belt Sander, Sharpening Guide, Conical Disk and the list goes on.

Congratulations and many satisfying future projects. I hope you enjoy your time in the shop as much as I have.

Hope to see some pictures. Maybe a picture of your most favorite setup configuration.

[bspisak]

Thanks Dusty! I'm a woodworker from way back and just starting to rediscover the joy of it all.

My SS was purchased new in 1981 (for $1000!) and got a lot of use early on. I made a fateful decision early in life to go to college instead of take an offered apprenticeship in cabinet making. I eventually moved and for 15+ years had no permanent place to call home. The SS sat at my parents place and they refused to get rid of it even though I told them to. Recently, I bought a house with a nice big garage and I've been reunited with it and started making sawdust again. That spark started a bit of a fire, so to speak. :-)

So now I have recently purchased a used 510 and will be selling my old 500. The new machine came with a jointer, bandsaw and routing setup, so I came out a bit ahead buying used. It needed a lot of TLC though, and although it is now all cleaned up, I still need to fine tune the alignment. This forum has been great getting me back on track again - thanks to you all!

My first project (still in progress) is to turn part of the garage into a shop, so I've been building cabinets and such. I'd like to start making furniture again at some point, but my current "retirement" is coming to an end so I may have to set that aside until I have a few other needy things taken care of first. (Namely, a new job, a badly needed home remodel, a new engine in an old truck, a college fund for my girl and the new baby on the way....)

Nevertheless, I feel I'm back for good; the smell of freshly cut wood is too strong an elixir. I find that there is nothing better than strolling through my local lumber store dreaming of things to do!

Brian