Stanley / B.D. Merge...

[mickyd]

Lets.

First, drop the snotty attitude and condescending tone about people who buy at Walmart or Kmart or Harborfreight. I did not say I do or do not buy from these stores, but I'm not so arrogant as to proclaim nothing of quality can be purchased from them. Only a fool would proclaim that. An ignorant fool. For quality items can be purchased at each of them. Shop carefully and with your eyes open.

It stands as I stated about Stanley. Stanley sells cheap junk tools at those locations. THAT was the subject. Your refusal to admit it or to go look at the Stanley junk changes nothing. You demanded proof that Stanley sells anything other than quality tools. That proof was presented.

I see dusty sharing his opinion, buying habits, personal experiences, and facts but I don't view his posts as showing attitide or a condescending tone.

[dusty]

Lets.

First, drop the snotty attitude and condescending tone about people who buy at Walmart or Kmart or Harborfreight. I did not say I do or do not buy from these stores, but I'm not so arrogant as to proclaim nothing of quality can be purchased from them. Only a fool would proclaim that. An ignorant fool. For quality items can be purchased at each of them. Shop carefully and with your eyes open.

It stands as I stated about Stanley. Stanley sells cheap junk tools at those locations. THAT was the subject. Your refusal to admit it or to go look at the Stanley junk changes nothing. You demanded proof that Stanley sells anything other than quality tools. That proof was presented.

foxtrapper,

I truly am sorry to have offended you so with my comments. If you find what you want K-Mart, WalMart and the like, by all means go there to shop. But, we got started on this subject by discussing the Stanley M&A and questioning what that was going to do to tool quality in general. Stanley now has pretty good control over most all the handtool industry other than what I would call high end tools such as Lee-Nielsen.

Someone else made the statement that Stanley's quality has deteriorated. I sorta questioned that and asked for some specific examples.

You then countered with "You've got to be kidding me. Go to the tool section of Walmart or K-mart and admire those "high quality" Stanley screwdrivers or squares and such".

To that I replied "I don't buy tools of any kind, not even gardening tools, at K-Mart or WalMart".

And then we go on from there (downhill).

I did not say that there was nothing of quality available at these stores but I did say that I do not shop for tools there. Why? Because I believe there is a greater chance of buying marginal quality tools there than there is of getting what I pay for. You apparently disagree and that is certainly your right.

Again, I apologize for the way my comments have offended you. That was certainly not my intent.

These are a few of my tools not purchased from high end stores but they are old and have served me well. Then are all Stanley Tools.

[ATTACH]6418[/ATTACH]

[billmeyer]

You can now find Craftsman hand tools at K-Mart.

BPR

That is because K-mart bought Sears a few years back.

Bill

[JPG]

I see dusty sharing his opinion, buying habits, personal experiences, and facts but I don't view his posts as showing attitide or a condescending tone.

There are things other than beauty that reside in the eye of the beholder!:(

[keakap]

... My Stanley items are all older but they have all held up great.

I think you've hit the right key there, Dusty.
"older".

As in "they sure don't make 'em like they used to" older.

Might be a subject for a new thread:
Which company's products are still improving?

(I'll venture a list start with ShopSmith, Bridge City, & maybe Starett?)

[keakap]

...For some guys it comes down to $$$. Either you buy a bunch of "decent" stuff at a low dollar amount and do woodworking or... You buy one $500 hammer and sit it out in the floor and look at it...

Or combine the two-- buy the decent hammer and look at it while you're trying to use it.

OUCH!

[a1gutterman]

Please show me how you know this. I searched as best I know how and found no China association.

Hi Dusty,

I "know this" because of my experience. Go to ANY store that sells Stanley (knot just WalMart), pick up the tool or package and look at it. Where it used to say "Proudly Made In The USA", or some such statement, it now says "CHINA". This goes for their hardware too! Stanley hinges and screws made in China! As for your search efforts, let me help you out]Stanley's web site[/URL]. The first one is from their knowledge base and is a response to my question, "Where are your tools made?" The second one is the official Stanley China web site. I can knot read a thing there except the phone numbers, but the way things are going, my grand-children probably will be able to!:(

http://server.iad.liveperson.net/hc/s-44183334/cmd/kbresource/kb-3632740807893728801/view_question!PAGETYPE?sq=Where%2bare%2byour%2btools%2bmade%3f&sc=2&sf=101113&sg=1&st=759662&sn=2&documentid=332674&action=view

http://www.stanleyworks.com.cn/

In addition, yesterday I e-mailed them with this request:

Subject: Country of origin
Please tell me how I can find out where a Stanley tool is made before I buy it. Can you tell me approximately what percentage of Stanley tools are manufactured in the USA? Can you tell me what percentage of Stanley tools are assembled in the USA using USA made materials? Thank you.

And today I received this answer:

Thank you for contacting us.
We have generated a support ticket to help us track your inquiry. Your ticket code is XXXXXXXXXXXX. Please use this code in any further communication.
Please forward the product number of the tool and we can tell you the country of origin.
In case this email does not fully answer your question, or you would like to contact us for any reason, simply reply to this email.
Thank you
Stanley Tools Customer Care
Visit us online at http://www.stanleytools.com
=======

Does any one reading this think that they "fully answered my question"? I will try again and report the results (or lack of).

I am a little surprised that you are asking me for "proof" of my statement, as the last time you did that (especially see post 56 and later, but the whole thread makes for an interesting read), when I gave you the proof, you knot only discontinued the conversation, but you actually deleted at least one of your posts. I hope that this post addresses your inquiry adequately.

[a1gutterman]

I don't buy tools of any kind, not even gardening tools, at K-Mart or WalMart.

Are the tools sold there the same as those sold in hardware stores and other reputable retailers?

Just to calibrate this discussion, if you needed to purchase a good set of screwdrivers, wire cutters, framing square and a key hole saw - where would you go (with hopes of a one stop shop)?

I do knot know that you could buy all of those items in a one stop shop, but you might be able to do so at Sears. Last time I was there, they were offering US made tools (cost more and I am willing to pay more for them) right along side cheaper over seas tools. Otherwise, there are still many companies manufacturing in the US, you just have to know where to look. The combination of tools that you list may knot be available in that one-stop store though.

[dusty]

Actually, Tim, I didn't ask for proof. I asked to be shown how one would know that everything with a Stanley name was made in China. So many things do not come marked with country of origin.

Side Comment: Have you looked for a statement of "country of origin" on the Shopsmith stuff you buy? Most all of what I have gotten (since we began this discussion a year or so ago) is not so marked.

"Please show me how you know this. I searched as best I know how and found no China association".

I found business reports and financial s that clearly indicate that much of the Stanley Tool Works production has been moved overseas (to China) but I also went to Ace Hardware and looked at items for sale. Many were not marked with country of origin. I also noticed that many that were marked were manufactured in Canada, Mexico, Germany, etc.

I have long ago quit denying that there is a movement that will one day take nearly all manufacturing out of the USA. You don't have to prove that to me. However, not every low cost item or every poor quality item available is made in China.

[heathicus]

I briefly worked for Customs & Borders Protection. Although I worked in the data center and not out in the field, from that experience I can say that anything imported must have the country of origin on it. Not having the country of origin is one way to have your cargo denied entry into the US. But, although they are good, the Customs officers can't catch everything.

I'm not aware of domestic products being required to have a "Made in USA" label. To my knowledge, those labels are due to either pride, as an attention grabber for those of us who pay attention to those things, or when the product is to be exported to another country.