Cutting small stock

swampgator · Post by **swampgator** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:27 am

Ok, the newbie needs some coaching from the pros. I want to cut some runners for a table sled. I have some black walnut scraps that are rather hard to cut. My saw blade is sharp and eats soft woods with ease, but it was very slow to cut down the black walnut.

Here's what I did. I sawed off a piece of 1 inch black walnut and then rotated to get it down to 3/4" width. Now, I wish to cut 3/8" pieces from the 3/4" piece. I develped a fear for this operation while I was making the first piece as I felt the saw kicking back and the piece tried to ride up over the sawblade. The depth of the blade was set so that the bottom of the gulet was at the top of the stock I was cutting. I did use a fence straddle guide to hold it down, but I am not comfortable now trying to get this thinner. I am thinking that if I put on my sacrificial fence, using a push stick, I should be able to "peel" the runners off the left side of blade. I suppose I should also use a feather board on the left side of the blade (away from the fence) to prevent some other catastrophe. What are your experiences and thoughts? Thanks for visiting and offering a crutch to a new one.

the old swampgator in FL

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:06 am

Cut a 3/4" scrap board to put a lip on one end. This lip is to push the walnut workpiece. Using a feather board(in front of the blade) to hold stock(and push board) against the fence, put the scrap board over the walnut workpiece with the 'lip' over the end.

This allows you to both feed and hold down the workpiece with the 'scrap' board. The blade will cut a slot in it the first time, and will just re pass through the slot each successive time.

That's the way I would try it.

jimthej · Post by **jimthej** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:11 am

If your walnut is 3+ inches wide, I would recommend cutting the 3/8ths pieces directly from that. That will give you control and less danger to fingers. A hold down push stick and a featherboard are strong safety measures.

dwevans · Post by **dwevans** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:28 am

Not sure who posted this before, but the best way IMO is to first plane the board to the thickness of the miter bar slot. You should have excellent control over the thickness with your planer. Then slice off 3/8" strips to make your miter bars.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:58 am

Swampgator
First something is wrong! Blackwalnut is not all the hard to cut. I have cut tons of it. I would find what that problem is first.

Then do what JPG suggested make a push stick that is as wide as the wood your cutting is and let the saw make a slot in it. Make sure your hands are far enough away from the blade should anything exciting happen. With the push stick as wide as the wood you will have control over the good piece plus the cutoff until the cut is completed.

However I agree if you had a planner or if you had resawed the wood to correct thickness first the cutting the pieces free would have been a lot easier.

What ever you do just think it through to make sure you hands, fingers and toes never are near the blade no matter what happens.
Best to you

swampgator wrote:Ok, the newbie needs some coaching from the pros. I want to cut some runners for a table sled. I have some black walnut scraps that are rather hard to cut. My saw blade is sharp and eats soft woods with ease, but it was very slow to cut down the black walnut.

Here's what I did. I sawed off a piece of 1 inch black walnut and then rotated to get it down to 3/4" width. Now, I wish to cut 3/8" pieces from the 3/4" piece. I develped a fear for this operation while I was making the first piece as I felt the saw kicking back and the piece tried to ride up over the sawblade. The depth of the blade was set so that the bottom of the gulet was at the top of the stock I was cutting. I did use a fence straddle guide to hold it down, but I am not comfortable now trying to get this thinner. I am thinking that if I put on my sacrificial fence, using a push stick, I should be able to "peel" the runners off the left side of blade. I suppose I should also use a feather board on the left side of the blade (away from the fence) to prevent some other catastrophe. What are your experiences and thoughts? Thanks for visiting and offering a crutch to a new one.

the old swampgator in FL

swampgator · Post by **swampgator** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:30 pm

Thanks, gents. Since I haven't operated the jointer/planer yet, that I'm going to reserve for another day. All the suggestions are excellent. I don't know why I didn't think of what JPG suggested at first. Great idea. I think I'll get out the old bandsaw and see what I can do with that.

For black walnut density, there are various opinions about black walnut. Some folks call English walnut and some other tree that I can't recall, is also called black walnut. I know from growing up in East Tennessee and North Georgia, that black walnut is so hard it is hard to put concrete nails into. It is beautiful wood and almost as hard as hickory. I have been to the mills where they call it black walnut, but not. It has a unique color and smell. This black walnut has been milled for about 6 years which may have increased its density. I don't know how to tell and I won't argue that point. Black walnut in Florida is very rare. It grows mainly from lower Alabama to upper Mississippi into Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia and northward along the Appalachian Range that I know about. It may grow other places, I just don't know except it is rare in Florida.

I really appreciate all the great tips and I'll certainly put them to use this weekend as time avails itself. Have a great weekend and I'll be back with all my fingers as I promise that I won't try something stupid.

The old swampgator in Pensacola, FL:)

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:12 am

Your right black walnut is rare in Florida I usually buy it from a mill in Northern Georgia or have my buddy get me some from a mill in North Carolina. Usually have to take 1000 bd ft at a clip. Presently I'm down to about 200 bd feet of 2 inch+ stock
I used Black Walnut almost exclusively when I lived in Ohio, had a buddy that harvested black walnut from southern Ohio, Northern West Virgina.

Actually had a buddy that had a whole chicken coup built almost totally of beautiful black walnut. He sold it all to a veneer company. That is after he found that most of the huge timber 6x12 and bigger in his house was also black walnut. Had 4x4s 12 inches on center wall studs and one timber that was 8x14 or bigger and was about 24 feet long. He was able to sell a huge portion of the wood to veneer company. If the studs hadn't had nails driven in he probably could have paid off his mortgage and rebuilt/remodeled the house. But since the house was so old and they used lathe and plaster the 4x4 wall studds had nails the full length and most were rejected by the veneer company but they jumped all over the rest of the his wood.

I love the Walnut and to me it works fantastic. I guess everyone has different experiences. To me southern yellow pine is my waterloo. Some of the hardest wood I have come across yet I know others that swear they never have a problem.

swampgator · Post by **swampgator** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:56 am

Good information, Ed,

Have started a new black walnut in my yard. It is about 4 years old and almost 30 inches tall. I picked up some of the nuts from a rare tree here and they didn't sprout. So,while in Tennesse visiting family, stopped by a horse farm and picked up some nuts which I planted. Only one grew. I need to move it this year and I hope I can do it well. When my sister was born in 1952, we had a couple of black walnut trees growing alongside hickory trees near a stream. Black walnuts were to be hulled, allowed to dry for about a month before cracking them open with a hammer. The one that I have in the garage, the kid who lived here before me tried to drive concrete nails into it. They didn't go very far, only deep enough that when I took it to the mill, the slab was rather large to avoid the nails. Even after 6 years of drying in the garage, when it is cut, it still smells that pungent aroma which is the same as nut itself. I find it rather amusing when folks ask what kind of nut that is hanging from the tree and this old farm boy just giggles to himself. In the early 1950's the old folks talked of loosing the chestnuts and the black walnuts were damaged at the same time. Farmers would look for black walnut trees which indicated the land was rich and workable. So when they found this tree, they would build a farm.

I've now decided rather than use the mitre slots, I'll make skids to slide along the outside of the table for my sled. The table is squared to the blade and it is square, so using a skid underneath as a fence should work well. This will keep me from trying to make this little thin runners. Thanks for your input.

the old swampgator in FL

iclark · Post by **iclark** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 am

swampgator wrote:Have started a new black walnut in my yard. It is about 4 years old and almost 30 inches tall. I picked up some of the nuts from a rare tree here and they didn't sprout. So,while in Tennesse visiting family, stopped by a horse farm and picked up some nuts which I planted. Only one grew. I need to move it this year and I hope I can do it well.

I suspect that the black walnut roots might resemble the roots of a pecan tree. I made the mistake one time of trying to transplant a 5' tall pecan. the pecan basically has a vertical tap root about as deep as the tree is tall (at least in the short sizes) with very fine side roots. I believe that we got it dug up okay but that the surface water in the bottom of the new hole was too brackish. I may have lost too many of the side roots, too. it managed a few small leaves in the spring but it did not make it. if I had done it when it was as small as yours, I believe it would have made it.

in other words, don't put off moving it any more than you can help.

my attempt did have its bright spot, I was digging a 6' deep hole in the backyard of my house (visible from the street) on Halloween while a group of people in karate gis gave out candy for me. I was the talk of the block.

you shouldn't need this reminder, but...
do consider where this tree will be when it starts dropping nuts.
when my grandmother and her sister moved in to town from the farm, they had 2 beautiful shade trees for the parking area - both black walnuts. parking became problematic when the green-hulled nuts started dropping.

Ivan

swampgator · Post by **swampgator** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:02 pm

Ivan,

I can imagine the dents and stains on the cars in October. Around here the squirrels won't even bother. But, they clean up the pecans quickly. I hope to move that black walnut during January. I have a big open space in the back yard that could use some shade. And, where the nuts will fall won't hurt anything.

Ed,

I re-read your first post and did some experimentation today. I learned the the "somthing is wrong" was the operator. With my fear and desire to be easy with feeding this thin stock, I inadvertently pushed down which caused the stick to try to ride up and over the blade. Tried it again today and watched what I was doing. That's when I discovered my downward pressure and didn't give the saw time to cut it. After finding this mistake, I changed blades and a hollow ground did better cutting than the rip blade. So, lessons learned if I can remember. Thanks for waking me up.

JPG,

Today, I figured out your worthwhile solution. Works like a charm and takes away much of the fear of kickback and projectiles.

What I finally did for my table sled was make skids to slide along the outside of the table of a SS 500. It is a 3/8" sheet of luan plywood, with a 2 X 4" on the leading and trailing edges, a sheet of plexiglass will be mounted over the cutout like the one pictured in the "Sleds????" thread.

Thank you to all the contributors. I learned some very valuable lessons.

the old swampgator in FL:)

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Cutting small stock

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