The Whirlwind Braking System

[dusty]

We need a volunteer to do some field testing for the benefit of the membership.

The question to be answered will be:

How much damage will be incurred by stopping a coasting Shopsmith table saw blade with your finger? My guess is that it will be significant - even though the power is turned off.

Until the test results are fully documented and verified by duplicate, un-collaborated testing, I shall continue to keep my fingers out of the Red Zone.

[easterngray]

After watching the videos at Mr. Butlers website, it appears that the Whirlwind System is attached to the riving knife. If that doesn't work on the Shopsmith, it appears that the alternate mounting explained in the video might be suitable. Alec

[Ed in Tampa]

First off the whirlwind blade guard and the way it connects to the saw looks a lot like how a shark guard connects to a Shopsmith so that part of the equation is already done.

Also since the Sharkguard has a vac port that part is done also. Now what is needed is a sensor that tells the device the wind flow has been disturbed and to shut off the machine.

My guess is you could take a shark guard perhaps place some rubber or vinyl skirting on it and place a air flow sensory in the exhaust stream. Adjust it so any disturbtion in the air flow triggers the device and shuts down the saw.

As for brakes I don't think the one in demo had any but many of the new saws come equipped with them. Also as someone mentioned a Dc current could be applied.

I own an old Craftsman Radial arm that has a manual brake (like many of the older band saws). When you shut the machine off you then reach over and squeeze a button that applies a friction brake onto the opposite end of the saw arbor. Works for me.

Website to see a sharkguard
http://www.leestyron.com/shopsmith510.php

[dusty]

First off the whirlwind blade guard and the way it connects to the saw looks a lot like how a shark guard connects to a Shopsmith so that part of the equation is already done.

Also since the Sharkguard has a vac port that part is done also. Now what is needed is a sensor that tells the device the wind flow has been disturbed and to shut off the machine.

My guess is you could take a shark guard perhaps place some rubber or vinyl skirting on it and place a air flow sensory in the exhaust stream. Adjust it so any disturbtion in the air flow triggers the device and shuts down the saw.

As for brakes I don't think the one in demo had any but many of the new saws come equipped with them. Also as someone mentioned a Dc current could be applied.

I own an old Craftsman Radial arm that has a manual brake (like many of the older band saws). When you shut the machine off you then reach over and squeeze a button that applies a friction brake onto the opposite end of the saw arbor. Works for me.

Website to see a sharkguard
http://www.leestyron.com/shopsmith510.php

I think you are correct in that many of the features are "functionally" incorporated in other pieces of equipment and in maybe a different fashion.

That fact, in itself does not detract from this units practicality and usefulness.

I think that if you go back and review the video documentation provided on the Whirlwind. you will find that the saw is turned off as the result of a proximity detector and not as the result of disrupting air flow.

I was unable to draw any conclusions about the brake. I didn't see any video footage on the blade that was that timely and revealing (convenient, maybe).

But just to make sure I understand where you are on this, Ed - if you had a table saw that had this incorporated, would you dismantle and discard it or would you use it?

I would use it!

[iclark]

it seems to me that a rapid-stop feature would be straight-forward in a digital motor control. lots of digital controllers have ramp - de-ramp capability. the DVR intrinsically uses a digital motor control.

it would seem that this capability would make the keyed washer on the mandrel an essential item.

on a related note, I see that Delta is now selling a version of the Nova lathe chuck modified for reversible use. on a multi-purpose machine like the SS, it could be unfortunate if the emergency stop feature for the table saw accidentally engaged when turning a largish bowl with a threaded insert chuck.

Ivan

[dlbristol]

.

Until the test results are fully documented and verified by duplicate, un-collaborated testing, I shall continue to keep my fingers out of the Red Zone.[/QUOTE]
I agree Dusty, I don't think it is a good idea guard or not. I also think that any thing that helps with safety can also cause a false sense of security. For example, there will still be times when you can not use the guard, and if you are conditioned to getting hands in the red zone, you may have created a problem. Use good procedures and a good guard and the result is probably more than twice the safety.

[Ed in Tampa]

I think you are correct in that many of the features are "functionally" incorporated in other pieces of equipment and in maybe a different fashion.

That fact, in itself does not detract from this units practicality and usefulness.

I think that if you go back and review the video documentation provided on the Whirlwind. you will find that the saw is turned off as the result of a proximity detector and not as the result of disrupting air flow.

I was unable to draw any conclusions about the brake. I didn't see any video footage on the blade that was that timely and revealing (convenient, maybe).

But just to make sure I understand where you are on this, Ed - if you had a table saw that had this incorporated, would you dismantle and discard it or would you use it?

I would use it!

Dusty
Please don't misunderstand my post. I thought the thing was interesting and yes if it was installed on my machine I would probably used it.

I was just saying I thought the sharkguard was something that could be modified to work like the whirlwind. Since the sharkguard is readily available right now I thought with a little mod someone could cobble up their own whirlwind.

As to the type of sensor. You mentioned proximity sensor. I don't know but I find two bits of evidence to disagree.

First the name whirlwind, to me that suggests something connected with wind or windflow.

Second in the video he always made a point to start the dust collector ( very noticeable ) and two where he placed his finger in the demo to make the thing trip. It was like he was trying to get to close the small gap between the shield and wood.

I may be very wrong here but from looking at the picture and videos I really think the thing works on a change of wind velocity to the dust collector.
In any case I would like to know cost but again I think this guy is no where near manufacture. I think he has a workable concept and is looking for investment capital.

Dusty your loaded perhaps you should consider investing one of your millions into the project. If you do I will buy the first one provided you give me the "good old buddy discount".

[dusty]

I have not asked the investment manager to see the funds available let alone to tap into them; but that is a discussion for a different day and a different thread.

I'll have to go back and review the data I looked at to see why I thought it utilized a proximity sensor.

If it does not, I may have to purchase a Sharkguard and look into cobbling my own shut down circuit. I have not used a Sharkguard but I know others have and like them as a dust collector. It would not take much to incorporate a "power disconnect upon intrusion" of the red zone.

The problem that I would anticipate, if doing this, would be to define the intrusion zone to the proximity detector.

I gotta be careful here. I am talking like I still know what I am doing (as an engineering technician) and I can't even make my battery charger work when connected to an electrolysis tank.

I was out there in the shop tearing my Sears Battery Charger (made in China I just noticed) apart when I got a little zap from what I thought was a dead circuit. Now that I know the battery is alive (as is the charging circuit), I am in the research and study mode because the status lights are all dark.

[cincinnati]

The biggest problem with the safety of any table saw is the fact people don't use the guard. This whole system is based on using a blade guard. A system like the saw stop does not require you to use a guard at all but still have the safety factor.
One plus over the Saw Stop is the fact you do not have to contact the blade before the safety system works.

[dusty]

I have revisited the video clips and have confirmed, in my own mind at least, that the "shut down" is triggered by a proximity sensor. There was some speculation that it was a disruption of air flow but that is not the case.

I thought I understood proximity sensors but I must not. A piece of wood being cut would certainly pass into the area of sensitivity but does not trigger the sensor. Neat trick, Mister Butler, neat trick.

You know what I am going to be reading about for a while.