Are older units better?

avispex · Post by **avispex** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:33 pm

I am setting up my first shop and I have been watching the local classified ads for a Shopsmith Mark 5 510 or 520. I have already been able to purchase a bandsaw, scroll saw, and jointer for whichever main unit I end up getting. The used ones in my area, Salt Lake City seem to go from about $400 to $1000 depending on how many accessories come with it. This past week a 510 sold for $600 with a bandsaw and a Model 10-ER sold for $95, so the prices are all over the place. I will have a budget of $500 to $600 for my machine.

In any case, my question. I happened to be at the machine shop for my work yesterday and I asked the machinists if they had ever heard of the Shopsmith. They both said that they are really cool machines but that the older ones were better. However, since neither of them use the machines, I was wondering if this is true or if the regular users think this is so. The main reason I wanted a 510 or a 520 was that that rotating table adjustment system seemed so cool, and the extension tables seemed to make the system more stable. But if the model 500 is mechanically superior, I can probably just get one of those and save some money. There are definitely more 500s that show up than there are 510's. Thanks for any input.

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:55 pm

There's no difference between all of the MarkV's headstocks. What makes it a 500,505,510,520 is the table system.

iclark · Post by **iclark** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:58 pm

avispex wrote:In any case, my question. I happened to be at the machine shop for my work yesterday and I asked the machinists if they had ever heard of the Shopsmith. They both said that they are really cool machines but that the older ones were better. However, since neither of them use the machines, I was wondering if this is true or if the regular users think this is so. The main reason I wanted a 510 or a 520 was that that rotating table adjustment system seemed so cool, and the extension tables seemed to make the system more stable. But if the model 500 is mechanically superior, I can probably just get one of those and save some money. There are definitely more 500s that show up than there are 510's. Thanks for any input.

are you sure the machinists did not mean the ER-10 when they were talking about the older ones?

some argue that the ER-10 can be a better machine for use as a lathe or mortiser because it has the heavier/stiffer way tubes.

I don't think that I have heard much argument that the 500 is better than the 505/510 or the 520. the 500 is smaller to store in table saw mode, though.

just my 2 cent.
Ivan

heathicus · Post by **heathicus** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:59 pm

By "older ones," I'm sure the machinists were talking about the 10ER machines, not the Mark 5. The only real difference between a 500, 510, and 520 is the table system. Unless you want to get into the gilmer drive, 1 bearing quill, and lower HP motor the oldest Mark 5s had which are not "better" than the new machines.

iclark · Post by **iclark** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:59 pm

beeg wrote:There's no difference between all of the MarkV's headstocks. What makes it a 500,505,510,520 is the table system.

true as long as you only refer to the ones currently produced.

lots of changes since the greenies and goldies, though.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:04 pm

Be advised that the SPT's you have acquired will not mount to the older model 10's. (Not without rare/expensive adapters.)

I agree with your machinist buddies(it is cast iron rather than aluminum) and is 'built like a tank' and is quite similar to machine shop equipment built in the same period.

It does not however have the features of the 'newer' mark 5 and mark V. There are variations on the mark 5 as has been noted. The mark V are produced by the current manufacturer(shopsmith inc.) The model 500/505/510/520 are variations produced by ss inc. There are other versions as also has been mentioned.

If all things being equal, your preference should be: Mark V /520 - 510 - 505 - 500 - Mark 5 - mark 5 'Goldie' - mark 5 'Greenie'. There were early 'goldies' which share more with the 'greenies' than the later 'goldies'. A 1 1/8 HP motor is preferred over a 3/4 HP motor(the model 10's had a 1/2 HP motor.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:45 pm

Hmmmm! Free advice! I will suggest you stick with the 510 or 520. My reasoning is the larger saw table - larger extension table both for safer operation. Plus you can get replacements for any or all parts to the 510 or 520. Parts for the 10s are no longer made and must be gotten second hand.

Also you can buy ANY of the Special Purpose tools and/or available newer attachments that will fit the newer ones.

Even complete refurbishing of the headstock for the newer models is available.

heathicus · Post by **heathicus** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:32 am

There is plenty of debate over which is better - a 10ER or a Mark 5. I don't have enough Mark 5 experience to have a valid opinion (still in the midst of a restoration), but I do love my 10ERs. The table saw is the weakest point and the 500 table is about the same size so that same weakness exists there. I'd love to be able to upgrade my 500 to a 520 if I could afford it.

If the SPTs are important to you, then I would say stick with a Mark 5. Whether you get the 500, 510, or 520 table system depends on your table saw needs. It's certainly possible to power the SPTs with a 10ER but buying the original adapters to do so can be expensive. You can make your own adapter, but that's up to you to decide.

avispex · Post by **avispex** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:06 am

Thanks everyone for your helpful and detailed responses. I will probably be able to afford a stand alone table saw and spindle sander, perhaps even a small miter saw, so the Shopsmith will mostly be a bandsaw and drill press. I will keep looking for the Mark 5/V units.

iclark · Post by **iclark** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:52 pm

avispex wrote:Thanks everyone for your helpful and detailed responses. I will probably be able to afford a stand alone table saw and spindle sander, perhaps even a small miter saw, so the Shopsmith will mostly be a bandsaw and drill press. I will keep looking for the Mark 5/V units.

the 510 and 520 main tables with the adjustable support legs make the SS one of the nicest woodworking drill presses. the T-track in the fence is very handy for stops and clamps. the depth stop is also a dream to use versus the usual 2 nuts on a threaded rod system.

the 500 table does not have the support legs (unless you make some support jigs) and there can be some flexing with large Forstner bits (probably less of a problem if I ever learn to sharpen them). it is still a nice drill press - just not as nice as the upgraded versions.

Ivan