mickyd's Woodworking Projects

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:50 pm

Trust me Mike. You don't got Doug Fir! It looks like spruce to me too but there are lots of signs that it's not Doug Fir.

On the other hand, Spruce is good.. Eh?

Paul M

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:12 pm

shipwright wrote:Trust me Mike. You don't got Doug Fir! It looks like spruce to me too but there are lots of signs that it's not Doug Fir.

On the other hand, Spruce is good.. Eh?

Paul M

Wonder what color those rejects in the pile were as he culled (selected) his pieces at the lumber purveyer.

mickyd · Post by **mickyd** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:42 pm

shipwright wrote:Trust me Mike. You don't got Doug Fir! It looks like spruce to me too but there are lots of signs that it's not Doug Fir.

On the other hand, Spruce is good.. Eh?

Paul M

Just got done looking at Douglas Fir samples shown on the internet. As you say, it ain't Doug Fir. amended 6-19...not sure sure it's not DF now....
.
.
[ATTACH]9270[/ATTACH]
.
.
The material was definitely marked on the Home Depot signage as "kiln dried Douglas Fir"......an obvious error by the Depot. Wonder if I can sue?

I'll have to look at the marking directly on the lumber which I assume is applied by the lumber mill to see what it says. Sure is close in color to the spruce photo.

JPG40504 wrote:Hard to tell now a days since it is referred to as SPF = Spruce, Pine, Fir. The color did not appear to me to be any of the soft light brown colors I associate with fir. Spruce on the other hand, is quite light, almost white. Spruce tends to have small tight knots.

Surely you are not relying on the purveyor employee's knowledge of what species that framing lumber was? They typically do not know the difference between a bolt and a screw!:D

P.S. Fir has a distinct odor, while spruce has little if any.

I don't rely on employees knowledge anymore unless they are over the age of 50. My recent questions addressed to the upcoming generation(s) pertaining to things like crocus cloth, navel jelly, kerosene, and mineral spirits proved too comical for me to stand. The blank stares or the obvious misdirection they give me is just too outrageous.

Too bad they dont' have scratch and sniff samples of lumber.....

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:05 pm

If it is marked, it will probably say "SPF".

Go find an old piece of plywood and sniff that! 50 yrs oughta be 'old enough'.

If ya cannot smell it, cut into it and resniff.

osx-addict · Post by **osx-addict** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:14 pm

JPG40504 wrote:Go find an old piece of plywood and sniff that! 50 yrs oughta be 'old enough'. If ya cannot smell it, cut into it and resniff.

That reminds me of the smell I had the other day in the garage after some plywood sheets were sitting out there for a week or so.. It reminded me of visiting a lumberyard (NOT HD!!):p

mickyd · Post by **mickyd** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:23 pm

shipwright wrote:Also for starters you might .....

The trick is Mike, stop cutting to lines and measurements and start cutting to your work. .......

Paul M

Sometimes, it takes a couple repetitions before something really sinks in to this generally thick Canuk skull. Ran into a perfect example last night of why your 'trick' should be used whenever possible. When things need to fit together, it really doesn't matter what they measure, as long as they fit like you want. Sometimes you want a slight interference fit, sometimes a perfect fit, sometimes a relatively loose fit.

I was cutting the top and bottom plywood panels that will eventually slide into the 1/4" deep rabbets on the opposing arms. The plan width showed 21-1/4". The actual width between the bottom of the rabbets was 21-9/16". Had I cut to the plan, they would have fit but they would have been 5/16" of slop. So instead, I cut to the actual measured width....I thought. Since my FREE "scrap' pieces of plywood I was using had a nice maroon colored top and bottom veneer layer (you'll see it when I post the next assembly photos), and I only had enough stock for one attempt making the top and bottom panels, I had to make sure I didn't screw up my cuts. I cut the first panel to length and it fit PERFECT.....nice and tight which will make for a nice glue and screw joint. Marked the second piece, even measured it twice, made the cut on my last precious 25 inch long piece, blew the sawdust off, went to slide it into the dado's, and it was short......by EXACTLY......1-9/16". SOB was the 1st, 3rd, and 5th thoughts that came to my mind!!!! (that's for you Chuck!!

) Fill in the 2nd, and 4th thoughts with your own words of choice!! I'm sure you've had 'em. Somehow, when I measured out on my plywood, I measured to 20" vs. 21-9/16". It would have been so easy, so fast, and so accurate to have just brought the uncut piece of plywood over to my assembly, lined it up, and scribed a quick pencil line on it at the actual width between dado's. No measuring, little to no risk of any other error.

So, that's my story. My first rep making an error for not following the nice 'trick' you were so kind to share with me.

Man this woodworking is fun........

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:31 pm

You have made an important hop, grasshopper. Soon the measuring devices will assume their most effective role, that of rough size marking tools.

Paul M

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:15 pm

Might as well jump in here re. species of wood. Took another look at post #369 and saw dark colored annual rings on the cross sections of wood. Especially in the first photo. To me this is more characteristic of Douglas fir, rather than one of the "white woods" such as spruce.

The only reasonable way to identify wood species is to make a clean cut on the cross section, using a sharp tool (knife, chisel, razor blade) then examining it with a 10x loop, comparing it to an identification key or a photo.

Anyway, having not done this, I'll go with the stamp on the wood. - I've never seen dark summerwood bands in the white woods. These would be spruce, the true firs, and maybe lodgepole pine. The true firs - Grand fir, subalpine fir, etc are all genius' of Abies. While Douglas fir is not a true fir. It's scientific name is Pseudotsuga menzesii. There are a few different growth and form patterns of Doug fir, depending on the geographical region.

Your wood does appear to be a little light colored. This may be caused from the lighting as well as coming from trees that have not yet developed heartwood. The heartwood of mature Doug fir is quite dark. Old loggers in MT called it red fir.

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:30 pm

mickyd wrote: It would have been so easy, so fast, and so accurate to have just brought the uncut piece of plywood over to my assembly, lined it up, and scribed a quick pencil line on it at the actual width between dado's. No measuring, little to no risk of any other error.

So, that's my story. My first rep making an error for not following the nice 'trick' you were so kind to share with me.

Man this woodworking is fun........

How many times have I said here "Never measure when you can superimpose..."

I guess not enough...

.
Of course I have never miss-measured or miss-cut anything...

At least not unless I was doing something.

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:50 pm

No disrespect Chuck. I have the utmost respect for your work and your advice .
But I've used literally thousands of fbm of doug fir and even spent a little time when I was younger working in a mill that cut it and I don't believe I've ever seen a knot like those in Mike's pieces. Can't explain it, they just look wrong. Also the grey color in the first photo in #389 looks wrong to me. Discoloration in D fir should be purple streaks if any at all. Most of the D fir I've used for boatbuilding has been old growth big tree stuff but even the construction grade D fir I've seen doesn't look like this stuff. I wish I could smell it, then there would be no doubt.
Just my opinion though.

Paul M