1962 Goldie Disassembly

Forum for Maintenance and Repair topics. Feel free to ask questions or contribute.

Moderator: admin

Post Reply
User avatar
ddvann79
Gold Member
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:34 am
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Bill Mayo

Post by ddvann79 »

billmayo wrote:Yes, those 2 screws holding the end bearing needs to be removed plus the screw holding the centrifugal weight assembly to the end of the shaft. This screw is under the tip that pushes on the contact strip. This can be a very diffficult screw to remove as the weights are always in the way even when the springs are disconnected. I use an old trick for loosening this screw and retightening it. I use a nail center punch and set the point at the outter edge of the screw's flat blade screwdrive slot so when I tap the punch, it will slowly rotate the head of the screw.

I will be happy to respond to any questions and have some pictures available.
Bill,

Great instructions. I'm a confused on what the "screw holding the centrifugal weight assembly to the end of the shaft" is. "This screw is under the tip that pushes on the contact strip." I don't remember seeing anything under there. :confused:

I've identified several screws/parts on the following image to help us discuss this. Would you please point out where this screw is to which you are referring? It sounds like you are describing something at position #5 (under the strips). Do I need to remove screws identified as item #3 to just get the whole contact assembly out of the way?

Replacing the solder connection with a flat connector is intriguing. Do you plan to get into those motors frequently? :p

[ATTACH]10943[/ATTACH]
Attachments
Motor Wire End Annotated.jpg
Motor Wire End Annotated.jpg (139.98 KiB) Viewed 4414 times
Dalton
Fort Worth, Texas
1962 MK 5 #373733 Goldie
User avatar
ddvann79
Gold Member
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:34 am
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Mike - mickyd

Post by ddvann79 »

mickyd wrote:
re trunnion......if your just trying to remove the trunnion from the stud, you turn the locking nut clockwise to tighten it so that you can file down the deformation made to the stud by the punch. Once it's cleaned up, you can remove the locking nut. Use protected pliers to turn the locking nut.
Mike, I am trying to remove the trunnion from the stud and also the stud from the tie bar casting. Should I not be trying to remove the stud also? On the back side of the casting, the stud is recessed about a quarter of an inch so I thought it could be punched out.

I made another photo to help us discuss this better. Are you referring to the lip on the collar around the stud (item #1) or the dimples/deformations I see in the end of the stud (item #3)? I think you are talking about #3 but I want to make sure because that collar keeps the nut from backing off entirely (with box end wrench). To get a file in there to file off the deformations in the end of the stud, the collar (#1) would need to be slipped back toward the nut, correct? It will turn a half revolution around the stud but I haven't tried to force it to slide on the stud.

[ATTACH]10946[/ATTACH]

The trunnion in the diagram on the SS website is different from my Goldie. This diagram shows the lock nut and the "collar" (item #1) to be the same thing. Plus, my stud doesn't employ a lock ring.
[ATTACH]10945[/ATTACH]
Attachments
Trunnion Exploded.jpg
Trunnion Exploded.jpg (78.06 KiB) Viewed 4397 times
Trunnion Stud Annotated.jpg
Trunnion Stud Annotated.jpg (121.25 KiB) Viewed 4399 times
Dalton
Fort Worth, Texas
1962 MK 5 #373733 Goldie
User avatar
mickyd
Platinum Member
Posts: 2989
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:18 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Post by mickyd »

Maybe this helps??
mickyd wrote:re trunnion......if your just trying to remove the trunnion from the stud, you turn the locking nut (#1) clockwise to tighten it so that you can file down the deformation (#3) made to the stud by the punch. Once it's cleaned up, you can remove the locking nut (#1). Use protected pliers to turn the locking nut.(#1)
Text in red = numbers in your photo above.

You do know the collar with lip is threaded, correct? That's why you have to rotate it clockwise to allow the end of the stud to become visible so that you can file off the deformed threads on the stud. Otherwise, if you don't file the threads, you'll have to fight the collar with lip all the way off the stud since the threads are boogered up. Clear?? If not, shout. We sure can't blame any miscommunication on not having good pictures!!! :D If we're mis-communicating, I'll take the blame.
Mike
Sunny San Diego
User avatar
johnmccrossen
Gold Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:09 pm
Location: Washington

Post by johnmccrossen »

ddvan79, Wow, timing is everything. Your pictures and explanations are great.

I have been trying to fix the same stud on my 1963 goldie because the threads nearest to the trunion are damaged from overtightening. Mickyd's explanation is right on. I found out the hard way about damaging the locking sleeve (your item 1) with pliers, but it came off. This piece has 3/8-24 internal threads (the stud has these threads)

On my machine, the stud is square with no threads where it meets the tiebar casting. I wonder is the stud is threaded into the casting? On the stud under the handle is a washer and a 3/8-24 hex nut that does the locking.

I solved my problem by adding a thicker washer on the stud and then leaving the outside sleeve (your item 1), loose on the shaft so the handle will clear the hex nut with the thicker washer installed. I have to watch it so it won't vibrate off for now. I might try some low strength locktite on it.

Looking at a newer version on a spare table, I found that the sleeve and hex nut are one piece (must be pressed together somehow after assembling) inside of the handle, and that the stud has full length 3/8-24 threads.

Anyway, my question also is if the stud is pressed in or threaded into the casting.
John McCrossen
Everett, Wa.
1954 Mk 5 SN 269454, 1955 Mk 5 SN 316013, 1960 Mk 5 SN 360792, 1962 Mk 5 SN 380102, Magna band saw, (2) jointers, (1) belt sander, (1) air compressor, (1) jig saw, (1) strip sander, (1) 20" scroll saw, DC 3300 dust collector, Sawsmith RAS, Craftsman table saw, 13" DeWalt planer, Triton 3 1/4 HP plunge router & table
User avatar
billmayo
Platinum Member
Posts: 2342
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Plant City, FL

Post by billmayo »

ddvann79 wrote:Bill,

Great instructions. I'm a confused on what the "screw holding the centrifugal weight assembly to the end of the shaft" is. "This screw is under the tip that pushes on the contact strip." I don't remember seeing anything under there. :confused:

I've identified several screws/parts on the following image to help us discuss this. Would you please point out where this screw is to which you are referring? It sounds like you are describing something at position #5 (under the strips). Do I need to remove screws identified as item #3 to just get the whole contact assembly out of the way?

Replacing the solder connection with a flat connector is intriguing. Do you plan to get into those motors frequently? :p

[ATTACH]10943[/ATTACH]
If you look at the center of the motor shaft between the middle of the 2 centrifugal weight springs, you will see a large straight slot screw that is difficult to see and to remove. This screw is directly under the tip that contacts and rides on the end of the contact strip. Yes, I remove the screw(s) holding the contact strip and bracket so I can get to this screw.

I switch from any soldered contact strip (older motors) to a newer flat connector contact strip as I needed to remove the whole end plate assembly for a modification I have been doing. I dig/remove the run windings and start winding ends from the run coils so I can attach new wire leads. I convert these motors to accept either 110 VAC or 220 VAC input power and/or make the motor reversible. I found that I cannot modify the Emerson motors this past week, only able to do some 3/4 HP motors and the 1 1/8 HP AO Smith and GE motors.
Bill Mayo bill.mayo@verizon.net
Shopsmith owner since 73. Sell, repair and rebuild Shopsmith, Total Shop & Wood Master headstocks, SPTs, attachments, accessories and parts. US Navy 1955-1975 (FTCS/E-8)
User avatar
ddvann79
Gold Member
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:34 am
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Motor and Motor Bearings

Post by ddvann79 »

billmayo wrote:I convert these motors to accept either 110 VAC or 220 VAC input power and/or make the motor reversible. I found that I cannot modify the Emerson motors this past week, only able to do some 3/4 HP motors and the 1 1/8 HP AO Smith and GE motors.
Wow! A reversible SS motor - Hmmmm....

Thanks, Bill for the patience. After I got home I saw the glaringly obvious and rather large screw you were talking about at position #5. I removed the contacts assembly, the springs and the centrifugal weight by spreading the bracket ears apart. The screw was easy to get to then but I hope this wasn't a bad idea.

The motor is now disassembled. The motor bearings are stamped "Hoover 77203 Made in USA" and I did some research on the bearing. As described Bucksaw in this thread, the 3/4 hp motors use the 6203 bearings, which are extremely common. My research indicates that is the same bearing used in my AO Smith 1 1/8 hp motor as well. Apparently, the prefix '77' indicates the bearing is double shielded, which is what the 6203 bearings are. I suppose nomenclature has changed over time.

It appears the grease from the bearing on the "wire end" has pushed out and has hardened. The "fan end" bearing has some surface rust on the face and a red sheen around the sides. Not sure what that's from. I also read that in motors that have been sitting idle for long periods, the oil and base material in the bearings will separate. So it's definitely a good idea to change these bearings. I'm a little concerned about some cracking in the motor wires but it appears to be in the 'clear coat' as opposed to the rubber insulation.

[ATTACH]10960[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]10961[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]10962[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]10963[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]10964[/ATTACH]
Attachments
IMG01319-20101119-2238.jpg
IMG01319-20101119-2238.jpg (132.47 KiB) Viewed 4384 times
IMG01324-20101119-2243.jpg
IMG01324-20101119-2243.jpg (183.65 KiB) Viewed 4382 times
IMG01336-20101119-2303.jpg
IMG01336-20101119-2303.jpg (121.52 KiB) Viewed 4379 times
IMG01322-20101119-2242.jpg
IMG01322-20101119-2242.jpg (129.24 KiB) Viewed 4402 times
IMG01328-20101119-2247.jpg
IMG01328-20101119-2247.jpg (127.91 KiB) Viewed 4381 times
Dalton
Fort Worth, Texas
1962 MK 5 #373733 Goldie
User avatar
ddvann79
Gold Member
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:34 am
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Trunnion Stud

Post by ddvann79 »

I was able to remove the stud. No, I'm still here - I was referring to the trunnion. [rim shot]

Thanks, Mike. You cleared that up perfectly. The nut and collar are two separate pieces but the collar is threaded. I used a rag and channel locks to screw it further onto the stud and then filed off the buggered threads as you said. I then backed it off with the rag and channel locks but still ended up marring the lip. Nothing a little filing didn't fix.

The stud is also screwed into the tie bar casting so I used an open end wrench and just backed it out. Then I used a micro file set to smooth out the big "punch deformations" (#3) inside the collar threads and on the stud. I then used a tap and die to clean up the threads on both components. The collar spins very freely now. I see why SS went to the snap ring set up they use now. There is enough space between the collar and the nut that I think I'll use a thin nut outside the collar and tighten the two of them together to keep the collar from vibrating loose instead of punching new indents. I don't know if that will interfere with the travel of the handle.

[ATTACH]10965[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]10966[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]10967[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]10968[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]10969[/ATTACH]

I'm now in the process of filing down dents, dings, and deformities in the trunnion gauge.
Attachments
IMG01284-20101119-2124.jpg
IMG01284-20101119-2124.jpg (132.19 KiB) Viewed 4354 times
IMG01306-20101119-2212.jpg
IMG01306-20101119-2212.jpg (159.58 KiB) Viewed 4352 times
IMG01308-20101119-2220.jpg
IMG01308-20101119-2220.jpg (153.88 KiB) Viewed 4351 times
IMG01309-20101119-2225.jpg
IMG01309-20101119-2225.jpg (182.18 KiB) Viewed 4351 times
IMG01314-20101119-2229.jpg
IMG01314-20101119-2229.jpg (135.78 KiB) Viewed 4350 times
Dalton
Fort Worth, Texas
1962 MK 5 #373733 Goldie
User avatar
johnmccrossen
Gold Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:09 pm
Location: Washington

Post by johnmccrossen »

ddvan79, Thanks for showing the answer to my question about how the stud is held in the casting. Good luck with the rest of your restoration.
John McCrossen
John McCrossen
Everett, Wa.
1954 Mk 5 SN 269454, 1955 Mk 5 SN 316013, 1960 Mk 5 SN 360792, 1962 Mk 5 SN 380102, Magna band saw, (2) jointers, (1) belt sander, (1) air compressor, (1) jig saw, (1) strip sander, (1) 20" scroll saw, DC 3300 dust collector, Sawsmith RAS, Craftsman table saw, 13" DeWalt planer, Triton 3 1/4 HP plunge router & table
User avatar
ddvann79
Gold Member
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:34 am
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Post by ddvann79 »

johnmccrossen wrote:ddvan79, Thanks for showing the answer to my question about how the stud is held in the casting. Good luck with the rest of your restoration.
John McCrossen
No problem. Glad to sacrifice my machine for science. :D

Please, call me Dalton (although some 'call me Ishmael').
Dalton
Fort Worth, Texas
1962 MK 5 #373733 Goldie
User avatar
mickyd
Platinum Member
Posts: 2989
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:18 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Post by mickyd »

ddvann79 wrote:I was able to remove the stud.........

There is enough space between the collar and the nut that I think I'll use a thin nut outside the collar and tighten the two of them together to keep the collar from vibrating loose instead of punching new indents. .....
Not sure the thin nut approach will allow enough room for the handle to work propoerly but if it does, great idea. If not, don't fret about the indent you'll revert too. Next time the best will have to be taken apart will be 2060 when your great-great grandson has to retore it again. :D
Mike
Sunny San Diego
Post Reply