Woodworking Shows and their value

[paulmcohen]

There have been some talk lately about work-working shows, I found this interesting article talking about the value or lack thereof.


Comments?

[ryanbp01]

Very interesting. I don't believe that its just limited to woodworking, but to all hobby-type shows. I have seen the same thing occurring at model train shows. They all used to be well-attended but if people don't have the disposable income they used to have, that certainly cuts into the bottom line. And we are certainly not immune. Read related threads that have been started concerning Shopsmith conventions over the last six months and I think it supports my viewpoint.

20 more days 'til Christmas,
BPR

[dusty]

I certainly don't understand. Look what is happening on TV with the coming of so many DIY programs. It seems that there is a resurrection in DIYers or at least an interest in DIY.

Is this a contradiction of what you are saying is happening in the world of craft and woodworking shows?

[ryanbp01]

No. I'm giving my viewpoint after reading the article that was posted and saying that people simply don't have the disposable income to support hobbies they had when the economy was doing better than it is now. When people are having to pay more to everyday items (gas being one of them) that leaves less money for them to spend on other things like hobbies. For example we had a hobby show that was a regular in my neck of the woods. The show died due to admissions, parking fees and the fact that vendors had to pay for space for their set-up. Clinics were offered but attendance was down. As one of the members in my model train club said, "Why bother to attend a show where I have to pay $10+ dollars for the opportunity to buy something when I can do the same thing at a hobby store or e-bay?".
DIY shows are popular, there is no question about that. Tool suppliers realize that. Look at the advertising on the PBS shows, HGTV, or the DIY channel. However, I believe the majority of people who watch these programs either a) wish they could do that or b) they hire someone else to do it for them because they think such shows are beyond their capability and lack self-confidence to try the same thing. What happens is that viewers will go out and look at the tools used take a look at the price and leave the store in a state of sticker shock. If the price doesn't shock them they may go ahead and purchase the tool, try to use it once, give up on it,and put the tool away, eventually selling it for far less than they paid for it in the first place jsut to get rid of it. Does that sound familiar? I'm willing to bet that if you have never done this, you know of someone who has.

Sorry if this seems to be rambling. Just stating my view on the matter.

BPR

[drewa]

Well that was an interesting article. As I have noticed with the academy here at Shopsmith, there has been zero interest by the woodworking community in taking classes. When Nick and I started teaching these classes we had a small but steady stream of folks coming in for classes. Even from as far as Papua New Guinea, Alaska and as close as 5 miles from the academy. We have seen a drop in interest so drastic we have not even received a phone call inquiring about the academy.

Nick has his theories, one being the shear cost of travel and lodging. I can't argue that point. I sure couldn't afford to pay for airfare/gas, 3-4 nights at a hotel, dining and the purchase of that dream tool I have been wanting.

I think, in regards to the above mentioned DIY shows on TV, the current cultural leaning has weened craftsmanship from the collective consciousness. Of all the people I know, of course excluding Nick, there is only one other person that actually works wood. The DIY shows are on the same level as reality TV. The "I like to watch" mentality.

I do however hope I am just being nihilistic. I would love to see a turn around in how our culture's values. At this point there is absolutely "no rational reason" to build/construct/create anything because it is SOOOOO much cheaper and easier to buy a disposable (ie. not an heirloom) piece of "woodwork."

Well... that is my catharsis for the day. As you can see, this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart.

Be good,

Drew

[nuhobby]

Drew,

Just a note... I appreciate your vocabulary and your literary citations. I also think Nick is a great writer. You both have a broad set of talents.

I am 41 and getting into woodworking after basically leaving it aside ever since 8th grade Shop class. It is highly refreshing for me. At the same time, around here at the Rockler store and the wood shows, I usually see older gentlemen. I feel honored to be in their company, but I do wish more young people were in it... for the good of everyone. I think it will happen but I don't know when. It is a long-term cycle most likely.

Thanks for carrying the torch. By the way, if I wasn't overcommitted to work and commuting, I would try to be more "social" via class-taking and clubs. As it is, I'm usually drained and I just like the solitude of working with the Mark V.

Best Regards

[reible]

I know I personally have made changes in my spending over the last years. One was my retirement, where once I could spend about $300 a month on hobbies and still fork over more $$ for a larger item when I needed it. Those days are gone. Now I plan for the next year and each year the tool budget drops with other things going up in price that is the only place the money can come from. I can see that it will not be long now before what money I do have will just be getting my supplies and wood. Paying for classes or going to shows isn't even in the books now... no way it going to be either. No buying video, no paying for videos online, no paying for magazines, no buying new books, the list goes on and on. As more and more boomers retire they will be facing the same thing, what remains to be seen is just how big a deal this is going to be.

None of my kids are into woodworking not because they are not interested but because they are too busy working and having kids, and the now normal having parents both working to support the house and car payments... they have no money left for what I see as normal hobbies and even less time to even think about having hobbies. Besides Dad always has more then enough tools that he loans out and a garage full so when he can't use them anymore they will get to fight over who gets what, but, they will have tools... time to use them, that is any ones guess. Will they just sell them off or use them??? Take classes or try to remember what I told them???

What we do know for sure is that the times are changing, which way they are going is anyones guess. Why they are going that way, the reasons are many, and remember it's all your fault.

Ed

[Ed in Tampa]

I think the wood working shows themselves have gone downhill. I attended the last one held here in Tampa and was very dissatisfied.

I went to see one tool in particular and frankly what I saw turned me away from the product. I went ready to buy and after the demo which was terrible I had more doubts than answers.

I think I knew more about the product than the demo'er and when I asked a question he either made up an answer or double talked his way around answering. When I got home I E-mailed the manufacture about my concerns and they immediately told me I must have my head up my ---. Needless to say that tool is not on my want list now nor will it ever be again. Incidentally the cost of the product was $600+ and I had SWMBO's okay to purchase.

The atmosphere at the show was almost carnival like and I felt like each vendor viewed me as a country hick ready to be separated from my cash. The lectures were done by local guys, many I knew, and most had less or equal time in wood working as me.

Delta did have a great deal that I passed up (still kicking myself). However from what I could tell it was the only really good deal at that show with everything else designed to separate the "fool" from his money.

I think the most troubling of all of it was the lack of real innovation, most of the things there were spin offs of old techniques, dressed up to look dazzling and offering little or no real advantage.

When I go to a show like this I want it to benefit from it. I want to feel I increased my knowledge, learned something, and I even was entertained. I don't want to feel I was being viewed as someone that needed to be worked, told "whatever" to appease me and to be treated as the last turnip to fall from the truck.

On the plus side of this post let me say Delta, Lie Nelson and Infinity Cutting Tools had their booths manned with people that both knew the product and that could/did speak woodworking not salesman hype. Had it not been for these booths and few others the show would have been a total waste of time.

My days of going to wood working shows may have come to a close with my last experience.
Ed

[Ed in Tampa]

Well that was an interesting article. As I have noticed with the academy here at Shopsmith, there has been zero interest by the woodworking community in taking classes. When Nick and I started teaching these classes we had a small but steady stream of folks coming in for classes. Even from as far as Papua New Guinea, Alaska and as close as 5 miles from the academy. We have seen a drop in interest so drastic we have not even received a phone call inquiring about the academy.

Nick has his theories, one being the shear cost of travel and lodging. I can't argue that point. I sure couldn't afford to pay for airfare/gas, 3-4 nights at a hotel, dining and the purchase of that dream tool I have been wanting.

I think, in regards to the above mentioned DIY shows on TV, the current cultural leaning has weened craftsmanship from the collective consciousness. Of all the people I know, of course excluding Nick, there is only one other person that actually works wood. The DIY shows are on the same level as reality TV. The "I like to watch" mentality.

I do however hope I am just being nihilistic. I would love to see a turn around in how our culture's values. At this point there is absolutely "no rational reason" to build/construct/create anything because it is SOOOOO much cheaper and easier to buy a disposable (ie. not an heirloom) piece of "woodwork."

Well... that is my catharsis for the day. As you can see, this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart.

Be good,

Drew

Drew I private message'd you on this subject. I will await your comments.
Ed

[Nick]

I have a story to tell that will at once shed light and create some confusion. This was told to me by Bob Raffo (inventor of the Sand Flee) and his son Steve Raffo.

When they were last here in Dayton, Bob, Steve, Drew, and I all went out for lunch. At one point our conversation turned to woodworking shows. Bob and Steve, Drew and I discovered, sell most of their tools through these shows. I was amazed because I, like every other woodworker on this planet, was of the opinion that these shows were on their way to hell in a handbasket.

"Have you seen a decline in attendance over the years," I asked Bob.

"Yes," he confirmed. "And an increase in sales."

He has surveyed the people who buy his tools at these sales and they seem to point to a shift in the subculture of the people who attend. Most of the buyers who show up at his booth, Bob says, are pre-sold. They have seen the tool on the Inernet and have read web-based reviews. They've done all the research they can do short of actually giving the machine a test drive. And that's what they come for. They want to see the machine in the flesh and smell the sawdust. Some even bring pieces of wood with them to sand. Once they are satisfieded that the machine works as well in person as it does in virtual reality, they buy and leave.

If Bob's observations are correct -- and he has a good deal more experience with these shows than any of us -- then there are several conclusions that we can draw. The first is that the Internet has largely replaced woodworking shows as the medium where innovative ideas in woodworking are introduced to the woodworking consumer. The people who complain about the shows going downhill are, I suspect, largely members of a group who remember when you went to the shows to see something new. Shopping the shows was an adventure, an excercise in discovery. Nowadays, to hear Bob tell it, these shows are little more than a "will-call" desk for tool manufacturers without a retail outlet, a point of delivery.

Shopsmith's experience over the last ten years seems to support these conclusions.As Drew told you, attendance at the Academy has dwindled away to next to nothing. Before the turn of the millenium, the former Academy director tells me, classes were packed and we had to turn many students away. In the latest catalogue (2007), the Academy has a two-page ad and I can count the number of people who have responded to it and expressed an interest in live classes on my fingers.

On the other hand, Hands Online! is growing in leaps and bounds. When Drew and I started down this path, we were afraid it would be a flash in the pan. There was a risk that initially it would attract a lot of attention from sheer curiosity, then the interest would wither away. But our audience has stayed with us and grown, even with all the embarassing technical blunders Drew and I have made. Over 50,000 viewers have seen our videos in the short time we've been webcasting.

Considering Bob's experience and my own, I would not expect the woodworking shows to recover their former glory. The purpose that they once served is now served by another, more accessible media. The best we can hope for is a transformation, and I doubt the present owners have the vision or the capital to make the change.

What would they transform to become? Good question. I ran out of the house in a hurry this morning after shoveling several tons of snow and I left my power to see the future on the kitchen counter. But if I were to rely on nothing more than common sense, I would take a good look at some of the shows that are still working. One that facinates me in particular is Artistry In Wood, which happens here in Dayton once a year and has earned a national reputation. In this show, the woodworkers are the focus, not the tools. Woodworkers enter the products of their craftsmanship in a juried contest, and prizes are awarded in several categories.Other craftsmen come to see this fine work and be inspired. Walk down the aisles and listen to conversations -- the most asked question at this show is, "How did you do that?"

On the periphery of this show are the same toolsellers that you see at the woodworking shows, and they do quite well for the simple reason that they are selling tools to a large, happy, and somewhat bedazzled audience. But in this show, the sense of adventure and discovery that we yearn for is satisfied by the woodworking, not woodworking tools.

Maybe that's as it should be. The change might not be a bad thing.

With all good wishes,