Building a Shop

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:23 pm

Drew
This is my challenge, though my shop is in my garage, I know truss construction used in most modern building is not designed to support weight hanging from them.

My son-in-law gets many jobs going in fixing shagging and broken ceilings in garages where people tried to suspend things from the ceiling in truss construction. Usually you can get away with things like bikes and Christmas ornaments but start storing wood, paper files, in one case precious heavy glass and sooner or later you will have problems.

As according to "Murphy's law" when the problem occurs it will be at night, when the car is the garage or just as your raising or lowering the door. That way the failure usually takes out the car and or the garage door.

If your going to store overhead and if the your shop was built using truss construction (even if it was stick built) make sure you don't depend on the truss or ceiling rafter to support more than it is designed.

My advice is don't do it, as most overhead storage in garages and shops are already at the max having boxes and junk sitting on them from above, they don't need more hung on them. I never suspend anything from the trusses. I insure all the weight is supported by the floor and walls. Even the walls can be a problem if the weight is high enough (luckly I live in Florida where most exterior wall construction is concrete block due to the hurricane threat).

Ed

drewa · Post by **drewa** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:18 pm

Touche Pussy Cat... I do however think with a little engineering you could do it. I have a text book on constuction (actually it's Nick's) and just as you build floor joinsts, with a given span you can calculate the load and come to a conclusion as to the size of material (ie. 2 by ?) you would need to support. It is my recollection, floor joist need to support 40 lbs live weight per square foot. I am sure you would figure for more weight than that. It is all just an engineering exercise.

However, Ed, you are right in the sense one should not suspend weight from the ceiling rafters. The typical rafter being 2X8 with a span of 8-10 feet or more and that is not enought to safely support a man and his dog. I believe the maximum span for a 2X8 as a floor joist is under 8 foot.

As with most of these projects we take on, they need to research thoroghly before we jump into the fire. And BY ALL MEANS this would require reseach and good judgement.

Be good (and safe),

Drew

reible · Post by **reible** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Lots of interesting items in this post but maybe we need to back the truck up and look at life as it really is. In most parts of our country we have zoning laws, some are city/town/?? some are county/?? some are at state level. You might even have subdivision regulations (sone places here have no out building allowed, yeck, you can't even put up a basketball hoop). Which brings up permits and fee's, the cost of government involvement.

And next we have insurance companies with rules and plans for your money.

Rules are rules but we have gone way past that in most parts of the country so I can only speak of which I know. When they do the fly-overs they map your property and look for additions or new building to tax you for. They then sometimes come to do an inspection and if you did not get permits and do it "right" or sometimes even when it is done "right" they can fine you and have you remove the building, or they will do it for you for a fee.

So what am I saying? I think it best to start looking at what you can and can not do where you live. Look at what permits you will need and what rules they have for that. Most times they will want plans and the building people where you get the permits will look them over to make sure they meet local codes. Rafters, joists, trusses all of that stuff is by code and it is not the same all over the country. That makes since because people living is snow country that can have 4 feet of snow on the roof have different requirements then those living in places that don't ever see snow. (This is just an example). And the codes also change by building use. A place you live in is different then a shed you store your lawn mower in. Having plumbing or electrical service changes the code... Only so much % of your land can be buildings, and you have set-backs and building can't be over utilities or within so many feet of property lines, and well the list goes on and on.

Lots of place you can't do your own electrical, or plumbing or if you do it has to meet with the inspectors wrath. Here in our town many of the permits require you to use licensed contactors approved by the city. We need a new roofing and just to have that done I have to get a permit and have a licensed roofers do it, or I could do it myself subject to inspection... (that of course is not going to happen at my age and condition.)

Now comes insurance. For standard insurance I can have a shed that meets requirements and it is covered for building and contents up to $13K if I want to cover it for more it needs a rider and that costs more and has other requirements. If you want a wood floor in that shop you might see what the cost of insurance is verses a concrete one. Heater vs no heater, it all has trade offs.

When you have a grip on these things then some of the other things will fall into place.

You might think I've been looking into this, and yes I have. The cheapest way for me to go is to build a shed in the backyard that is unheated, no electrical, and has a set of "official plans". Build that then move everything that is "storage" out of my garage and make more shop space in the garage. That makes a tiny bumb in property taxes rather then a "shop" of xxx square feet. So if I ever find myself with an extra $5000 that is what I'll do, well maybe any way.

Ed

paulmcohen · Post by **paulmcohen** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:15 pm

drewa wrote:Here's another idea...

I have a problem with storing 4X8 ply,

My shop is a 1 car garage, I built storage and a bench into the back wall but left about 8 inches open on the right side of the unit. I store my plywood in this space vertically. It slides in and out easily and only sticks out a small distance past the bench-top.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:19 am

Am posting again to second BPR's suggestion to have water in your shop. I've had a utility sink with running water in my last two shops and can say the water and sink are invaluable. When gluing I need water for cleanup. To wash hands so work doesn't get soiled is valuable. For cleanup of HVLP paint sprayer it's invaluable. For a drink of water it's nice.

My shop is 16' X 20' here's photos of two opposite corners of the shop. One corner has the sink - it's in the plywood cabinet next to the Dust Collector. The other corner shows my plywood/sheet goods holder (behind the SS) - lumber rack (above the sheet holder) and main bench. The sheet holder is hinged on the left side so it pivots into the room from the left side. The right side of the holder sits on a caster so it rolls/swings easily.
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fixit · Post by **fixit** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am

Hey Chuck,

You're WAY to organized for me! I wish my shop was as clean but then I wouldn't be able to spend time looking at ALL my "stuff" while trying to locate a particular item or tool.

I'm about to start a project to build upper cabinets for storage which may get most stuff off of work surfaces and make things go much more smoothly.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:35 pm

Clean, Hell! I just pushed stuff clear so I could snap a photo!

woodisgood · Post by **woodisgood** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:23 am

i built a building 20x20 with second floor. 10x20 is my wood shop in which i have a ss 510. i installed a 35000 btu heater w/ blower this year and intend on adding ac this spring. my only advice is storage off the floor and heat and cool it. its a pain walking 75 feet to use the bathroom, but that keeps me saying hi to the wife every so often.

Greenvilleguy · Post by **Greenvilleguy** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:37 am

My shop is in my basement with concrete floors. I really can't work down there more than a couple of hours without causing problems with my feet.

My advise would be to install wood flooring.

Chuck,

I noticed from your photos that you have some of that "jig saw puzzle" anti fatigue matting. Does that work? I've considered it, but my tools are on wheels and I'm concerned about rolling stuff on it.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:19 pm

Greenvilleguy wrote:
Chuck,

I noticed from your photos that you have some of that "jig saw puzzle" anti fatigue matting. Does that work? I've considered it, but my tools are on wheels and I'm concerned about rolling stuff on it.

It sure does! Also a good pair of boots with rubber soles helps big time! I had problems of hurting feet when wearing tennies (running/walking) shoes, even with the rubber floor mats.

With the Mark V all the way up on its wheels - it can be moved up onto the mats. I now (the photo was a year ago) have the mat as a solid square, and for sawing, the Mark V is rolled up to the edge of the mat. I stand on the mat. When drilling, routing, jointing - the Mark V is turned 90 degrees and the end of the Mark V is on the mat.