Tablesaw Safety Goes Under the Microscope--Again

[Ed in Tampa]

Hi Ed:
I think that the TS-3650 was doing well for HD. It is a really nice saw for the money and I fell in love with that fence the minute I touched it I have been really pleased with it all the way from assembly on. Two of Diana's' brothers bought one as did a BIL all about the same time that I bought mine. Then for some reason that I am unaware of, they quit selling it and started stocking the Granite top model with what I felt was a rather cheesy fence that I did not like the feel of at all. Toss your magnetic feather board on that top... I also don't recall it having the extension wings (not sure there). I was so put off by the fence that I walked away. I don't understand the granite top. This thing is for sawing wood not making fudge...

I do read of guys on LJ buying Saw Stops but if I am reading things right most of them are woodworking newbys or nearly so.
I don't expect to be buying a Saw Stop saw but then again there are a lot of things that I don't expect to be buying.

Another angle on the safety thing... I don't want a serious injury or amputation but I am unaware of any fatalities from a table saw. I suppose there have been some but very very rarely. If we are going to dump resources into something lets start with the stuff that is killing people like drunk drivers (that the lawyers keep getting off)... Or lets dump that money into cancer research...

I walked on ice all week this week and I am not even certified for that.

Yeah, I am becoming a cynic...


.

I agree the 3650 was a really nice saw, but after awhile they weren't selling. So Ridgid came up with the idea they needed a enclosed Hybred saw and granite top model was a cheap answer.

They simply didn't sell plus they had granite top problems. It seems the forklift guys at the HD learned how to defeat the careful packaging.

They have since gone back to a cast iron table hybred saw but sale projections were low enough that HD won't stock them, they are only special order and most people in HD don't know anything about them. My stores don't even exhibit a price.

And Dusty you are right in this economy big ticket items like saws aren't selling. But seriously do you think a serious woodworker is going to pay more for a sawstop than he can buy a really nicely outfitted Unisaw or Powermatic table saw?

The schools are being forced to get them if they want a tablesaw but as we all have be complaining about school shop classes are going away.

Cabinet shops that aren't using power feeders are being forced toward Sawstop by insurance companies but some are converting to power feeds, some to guided rail saws and some are giving up because of the cost of insurance.

However I you are right I don't know Sawstops bottom line financially and frankly I'm surprized they lasted this long. Perhaps they are making a killing and I don't know it.

But I would still love to see the Hot Dog demo with someone slapping the hot dog into the saw blade simulating an accident where the hand in thrown into the blade. I will bet the hot dog would lose a digit.

[foxtrapper]

...most table saw accidents don't happen because the person unaware feed his finger into the saw blade....mostt accidents happen because the hand was thrown into the blade due to kick back, the person operating the saw slipped or a piece of clothing got tangled or caught.

I'm not sure that's really true. I know several people who have been cut on a table saw (badly or otherwise), and every one of them did it by feeding their flesh into the saw blade. Be it they didn't notice where there hand was on the wood, or they slipped their hand across the saw blade with the guard up. Not a one of them had their body tossed into the blade by kickback.

Equally, I know many that have been injured by kickback. The injury is almost exclusively an impact injury from the flung piece.

I've never seen a study of the injury breakdown of this. I'd be curious about one.

What is wrong is trying to make a buck and finding out you can't, then trying to force people to buy your product they have already rejected...

That's the nature of any zellot. Be it a religion, safety, nutrition, etc. All will try to force their perceived betterment upon you. They are doing it for your own good, just ask them.

The fact that it's expensive is irrelevant to them. And, they believe it should be irrelevant to you as well. In fact they will usually have a way to explain that it's cheaper because the bad it's protecting you from is more expensive.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. That's the old saw (pardon the pun), and that's exactly what he's doing.

[dusty]

Unfortunately, Mr Gass has gathered in the powers of the CPSC to aid him in his quest. With his background as a lawyer, he has a distinct advantage. Couple that with the facts 1) that no one wants to be mangled by their table saw and 2) many of us are willing to blame (sue) someone else for our own stupidity makes this a problem that will not go away soon.

Next month I have to go to the DMV to register my truck so that I can drive it on the streets and dirt roads around Tucson.

:(One day I'll probably have to go somewhere to register my table saw so that I can make saw dust. To make my saw/shop eligible, I will have to schedule an annual inspection of my saw and the shop in which it resides.

We were promised CHANGE and change is coming as the size of our Government continues to grow.:mad:

[burkhome]

What we have here is two entities attempting to justify themselves:
1) an inventor who has attempted to bring a perceived value to the consumer who doesn't see enough benefit to pay extra for the feature thereby not participating in the foreseen demand, and 2) another government agency trying to justify its existance.

There are more mishaps with bandsaws during meat cutting than woodworkers with table saws. The big problem? Hands getting somewhat numb when cutting frozen product and the digits cut off when the butcher doesn't feel the blade initially cutting into him until it's way too late. Wonder how great the saw stop idea would work on a bandsaw.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

[dusty]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

You are probably right. I read somewhere that the CPSC panel consists of six(6) persons.

[cincinnati]

Sawstop for bandsaws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3PLwNccpXU

[Ed in Tampa]

Sawstop for bandsaws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3PLwNccpXU

I wonder what all you have to replace when that baby fires.
I imagine there would be tremendous stain on the wheels to stop that quick. Maybe they just stop the blade and let the wheel slip. That might tear up the wheel rubbers.

In any case on the bandsaw I think this may work better than on a table saw. Most band saw accidents do seem to be from people feeding their fingers into the blade. Bandsaw saws usually are quieter, the teeth aren't as vicious looking and it cuts slower therefore people aren't as afraid (and as careful) around bandsaws.

Of every injury I know of on the bandsaw it was do to the person just feeding usually his thumb into the blade.

Above where I said most people don't feed their hands into the blade it is usually thrown in and some one said that most they know about is when they passed the hand into the blade with the blade guard up.

I view that as being thrown in. They do it by moving their hand pass the blade not realizing their hand is line with the blade and they get cut. But the action of the moving the hand into the blade is like a wave and the hand is moving far faster than the hand just coming into contact with the blade pushing the wood.

In kick back situations the wood is ripped out of their hands and the force they were using to push the wood now jams the hand into the blade. I have had my hands whipped into the blade guard and many push sticks jammed into the blade because the wood caught on blade and was ripped from my control. Usually I was doing something real stupid, but isn't that how most accidents happen?

Thankfully I realized before hand that what I was doing was not a good idea and went and got push sticks or made sure the blade guard was correctly adjusted and in place.

[dusty]

Sawstop for bandsaws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3PLwNccpXU

I don't know if this is a Gass invention, maybe not, but it just shows that there shall be no end to this madness until we ALL either stop woodworking or buy into the saw stop technology.

[JPG]

I don't suppose being unable to 'see' the leading edge of the cutting action due to the guard obstructing your view has anything to do with inadvertently feeding your pinkies into it.

[Ed in Tampa]

how do you follow the cut line if you can't see the leading edge of the cut?