Hi, Everyone - a Newbie with a Question

[john_001]

Hi, everyone. I hope somebody can help me with a question about the wiring of the Mark V motor.

I recently replaced the switch on my Mark V - 500 (1958 model). But there was a detached wire and I don't know where it goes. I fired it up and it ran, but the motor started smoking. Shopsmith says they don't know anything about the wiring of the motor. Can anybody tell me how the motor is wired?

There are three wires from the motor: a blue one, a red one and a white one. The blue one goes to the capacitor and also to the power switch. The red one goes to the center pole of what I guess is a starter. The white one goes to what looks like what used to be a female tab plug (but is now broken and not attached to anything), and then from there to the white wire of the power cord. A black wire runs from the other pole of the cap to the right pole of the starter. Another black wire runs from the switch to the black wire of the power cord. The left pole of the starter currently has nothing attached to it.

I suspect the broken plug on the white wire may have been for the "unused" left pole of the starter, and my failure to connect it may have resulted in the starter not working properly. But I don't want to just connect it up and pray.

Can anyone help?

[JPG]

Hi, everyone. I hope somebody can help me with a question about the wiring of the Mark V motor.

I recently replaced the switch on my Mark V - 500 (1958 model). But there was a detached wire and I don't know where it goes. I fired it up and it ran, but the motor started smoking. Shopsmith says they don't know anything about the wiring of the motor. Can anybody tell me how the motor is wired?

There are three wires from the motor: a blue one, a red one and a white one. The blue one goes to the capacitor and also to the power switch. The red one goes to the center pole of what I guess is a starter. The white one goes to what looks like what used to be a female tab plug (but is now broken and not attached to anything), and then from there to the white wire of the power cord. A black wire runs from the other pole of the cap to the right pole of the starter. Another black wire runs from the switch to the black wire of the power cord. The left pole of the starter currently has nothing attached to it.

I suspect the broken plug on the white wire may have been for the "unused" left pole of the starter, and my failure to connect it may have resulted in the starter not working properly. But I don't want to just connect it up and pray.

Can anyone help?

Maybe!:D
http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showpost.htm?p=85642&postcount=3

[john_001]

Thanks so much for your reply. The picture seems to show the white wire going to what I called the "left pole" of the relay and then continuing, I assume, to the power cord. That's where the connector was snapped off and wasn't connected. I'm going to try hooking it up on a bench and pray I haven't damaged the motor. Thanks again.

John

[billmayo]

Thanks so much for your reply. The picture seems to show the white wire going to what I called the "left pole" of the relay and then continuing, I assume, to the power cord. That's where the connector was snapped off and wasn't connected. I'm going to try hooking it up on a bench and pray I haven't damaged the motor. Thanks again.

John

Take a smell test at the end of the motor to see if any burnt or smoky smell is detected. I keep my nose very close to the end of the motor when first starting each one. You will normally smell the insulation before seeing smoke. Be prepared to disconnect the power immediately if you smell or see smoke. I find a max of a second or two of smoke does not seems to affect the windings. Disconnect power if the motor hums or is slow to start. Trouble shoot the problem before applying power again.

I finally found 2 bad relays (3ARR1) on 2 GE motors but all the motor capacitors are still functioning (no bad capacitors in over 150 motors). I am finding it difficult to find/buy a replacement relay that does not smoke the motor. Contact me for the latest relay information to see if I am successful in finding a good replacement relay. (no luck at this time).

[john_001]

I wired the motor up properly, fired it up on a bench and it seems to run fine. No signs of smoke or burning, and the case stays cool. I ran it for about 5 minutes, then turned it on and off a number of times. It starts fine and I can hear the relay faintly click as it should on start and stop. But when I first started it, it had a high pitched squeal that faded away after about 30 seconds. After that, it seemed to be gone, but if spin the shaft by hand, I notice a slight squeaking, like a mouse coming from around the front of the motor. To my untrained ear, it sounds like a bad front bearing. The motor is a bit noisier and vibrates more than, say, my bench grinder. But I've never heard the motor running outside the machine, so I don't know if this is normal.

Shopsmith recently sent me an offer to upgrade the motor to the 1 1/8 hp model for $339 (full assembly) - I'm trying to decide whether I should do that anyway. Opinions?

Thanks,

John

[dusty]

That is about the best price you are going to get from Shopsmith on a new motor. If you feel like you need a 1 1/8hp replacement I would say go for it.

If the motor you have now is working for you, I ask - why change?

If the squeal is the only apparent problem, I ask - why not just take it to a motor shop and get it rebuilt (or rebuild it yourself)?

I'm cheap! I would put $10-$20 worth of new bearings in it and run it.

OR

I'll pay shipping and you can send it to me.

[JPG]

That is about the best price you are going to get from Shopsmith on a new motor. If you feel like you need a 1 1/4hp replacement I would say go for it.

If the motor you have now is working for you, I ask - why change?

If the squeal is the only apparent problem, I ask - why not just take it to a motor shop and get it rebuilt (or rebuild it yourself)?

I'm cheap! I would put $10-$20 worth of new bearings in it and run it.

OR

I'll pay shipping and you can send it to me.

I do not know how far away John is from you, but be careful what you ask for(shipping might be too frightful!):eek::D

[john_001]

I restarted the old motor and the squeel retrurned. I think I'm probably going to go for the new motor. The original motor is now 53 years old, it's making noise and I smoked it for at least 5 sec. by wiring it wrong. Plus the new motor is a third more powerful. I've commited myself to a pair of custom bookcases using the SS, and I've already invested over $200 in wood, so I think I'll cut my losses. If anyone wants to take a shot at restoring the old motor, let me know.

[JPG]

I restarted the old motor and the squeel retrurned. I think I'm probably going to go for the new motor. The original motor is now 53 years old, it's making noise and I smoked it for at least 5 sec. by wiring it wrong. Plus the new motor is a third more powerful. I've commited myself to a pair of custom bookcases using the SS, and I've already invested over $200 in wood, so I think I'll cut my losses. If anyone wants to take a shot at restoring the old motor, let me know.

Check your PM!

[JPG]

I have disassembled the motor John 'discarded'. It definitely had a 'burned' smell, but more like 'wood'. The bearings are 'rough' and the grease has migrated to the outside of them. They felt much better prior to disassembly(a bit of stress removing them from the housing). The start winding is 'scorched' and there are no shorts to the frame of the motor. Actually they are burned severely, but I do not think they are shorting(yet).


Pix follows:

[ATTACH]12564[/ATTACH]
Front before disassembly. Note internal sawdust accumulation.

[ATTACH]12565[/ATTACH]
Front internal.

[ATTACH]12566[/ATTACH]
Rear internal.

[ATTACH]12567[/ATTACH]
Rear burnt winding.(start)

[ATTACH]12568[/ATTACH]
Front burned winding(start)

The start winding measures about 3 ohms and the run winding 0.6 ohms.

Since those readings are normal(or at least reasonable), I will attempt to make it usable again. New bearings and some formvar gingerly applied to the scorched wires. I am hoping the thermal mass of the armature prevented more severe burning internal to the armature. Time will tell!

This motor is very close to being toast. The sawdust accumulation may have been a benefit it that the saw dust smoked first????

More later!:)

Post #5 this thread(5 min run) is indicative that it may be salvagable if not 'reliable'.



Make that 'stator', not armature!!!