Shopsmith Forums

What we will see happen is that used tablesaws will rise dramatically in price. It would be virtually impossible to legislate this to be retroactive, and even more impossible to actually enforce it.

Let California be the first to pass this. Maybe the rest of the country will wake up to the realities all the woodworkers have been trying to get them to see and it will end there.

I'm all for safety, but it starts between your ears. I'm not for having a mindless entity (government) tell me how to protect myself. Actually, I'm all for the government sponsoring education toward that end (drunk driving ads, drug ads, parenting classes, etc.) just not mandating my behavior. Along this line; I think it's wrong to have seatbelt laws just as I think it is stupid to not use them. It's wrong to legislate helmets for cyclists and darwinian stupid to not wear them. and so on and so forth.....

I wouldn't have thought it legal to force a monopoly product on people. eg. you can only own a firearm if it has a Brand X safety catch.

We have to have car insurance but at least we are allowed to choose who supplies it.

I will chime in with my usual comment whenever SawStop talk leads to the whole government-taking-away-my-choice argument.

You already don't have any choice when buying new tools in terms of what safety equipment is on the saw. Power Tool Institute, which is just a consortia of the big tool makers, decides what safety equipment you must buy. Their current mandate is a riving knife blade guard combo. Before it was splitters and blade guards. Someday, when they develop their own alternative flesh-sensing and blade stopping technology (which they requested and received anti-trust exemption to develop jointly) and when SawStop's patents run out or they are ready to mount a challenge to those patents, Power Tool Institute will mandate their own brand of blade stopping technology. They will do this on their own schedule if California and the Consumer Product Safety Commission don't act. Unlike the Consumer Product Safety Commission, PTI will not ask for or care about your opinions. They will do it and increase the prices of their saws accordingly. All that California or the Consumer Product Safety Commission are doing is possibly accelerating the pace of things by forcing PTI to act sooner rather than later.

This reminds me about the hot coffee lawsuit and how all restaurants are now required to print "Caution, Hot Coffee" on all their paper coffee cups.

Some of these things that most of us think as commonsense are now put into place to prevent lawsuits, no matter how stupid it may seem to the majority of the public. It only takes one person with no commonsense to make a mess of things.

For me, I do not use my SS tablesaw all that much anymore. I use my bandsaw to rip most boards and my sliding crosscut/miter saw to, well, crosscut. I do still use it for the larger pieces to get them cut down to size. CNC machines are fine for certain applications, but they can't do everything a tablesaw can do. The CNC for home shops are small and in no way can rip a 8-ft board. They are made more for carving applications and routing and also waste a lot of wood.

Also, crosscut/miter saws, to me, are just as dangerous as a tablesaw. I'm sure that bringing that spinning blade down has had its drawbacks to those who had their hands in the line of fire. Wonder how many injuries those cause each year. Haven't seen a braking system developed yet that can fit in one of those. More crosscut/miter saws are sold each year than tablesaws and are the norm on jobsites now more than tablesaws are.

All I see this doing is putting more money into Gass' pocket. I do not see how this can help the tool makers or consumers in any way, shape, or form.

woodburner wrote:This reminds me about the hot coffee lawsuit and how all restaurants are now required to print "Caution, Hot Coffee" on all their paper coffee cups.

Some of these things that most of us think as commonsense are now put into place to prevent lawsuits, no matter how stupid it may seem to the majority of the public. It only takes one person with no commonsense to make a mess of things.

For me, I do not use my SS tablesaw all that much anymore. I use my bandsaw to rip most boards and my sliding crosscut/miter saw to, well, crosscut. I do still use it for the larger pieces to get them cut down to size. CNC machines are fine for certain applications, but they can't do everything a tablesaw can do. The CNC for home shops are small and in no way can rip a 8-ft board. They are made more for carving applications and routing and also waste a lot of wood.

Also, crosscut/miter saws, to me, are just as dangerous as a tablesaw. I'm sure that bringing that spinning blade down has had its drawbacks to those who had their hands in the line of fire. Wonder how many injuries those cause each year. Haven't seen a braking system developed yet that can fit in one of those. More crosscut/miter saws are sold each year than tablesaws and are the norm on jobsites now more than tablesaws are.

All I see this doing is putting more money into Gass' pocket. I do not see how this can help the tool makers or consumers in any way, shape, or form.

I bet that Gass is not the only one making money on this legislation.

Dusty. I agree with you. Time will tell as to who gets to put their hand in this honey jar.

woodburner wrote:Dusty. I agree with you. Time will tell as to who gets to put their hand in this honey jar.

Once we know who those people are, it will be too late. The laws will be in place, Gass (and others) will have his bank roll and the California user will have been screwed. If the user wants/needs a new tablesaw - it WILL BE a SawStop. Once California passes the law, it is only a matter of time before the law will creep across the land.

I am 73 and will probably never see all of that come to fruition but it still bothers me. Not because of this law but because of what is happening to our country as a whole. Nearly every day we see something happening that is along these same lines. Oil companies can't drill, kids can't sell lemon aid, farm kids can't do farm chores, Girl Scouts can't sell cookies......

Pay attention people. Listen, learn the facts, review the voting records, know what your politicians stand for and develop your own opinions and then GO VOTE.

dusty wrote:Once we know who those people are, it will be too late. The laws will be in place, Gass (and others) will have his bank roll and the California user will have been screwed. If the user wants/needs a new tablesaw - it WILL BE a SawStop. Once California passes the law, it is only a matter of time before the law will creep across the land.

I am 73 and will probably never see all of that come to fruition but it still bothers me. Not because of this law but because of what is happening to our country as a whole. Nearly every day we see something happening that is along these same lines. Oil companies can't drill, kids can't sell lemon aid, farm kids can't do farm chores, Girl Scouts can't sell cookies......

Pay attention people. Listen, learn the facts, review the voting records, know what your politicians stand for and develop your own opinions and then GO VOTE.

Bottom feeding lawyers is the problem. No moral or ethical standard is considered when there is a chance for these bottom feeders to make a buck.

The other problem is sending lawyers to state capitals and Washington, DC to represent us. Stop sending lawyers and we'll stop seeing stupid legislation. Lawyers have the idea that something is wrong with everything and someone is responsible or irresponsible, so they pass idiotic legislation because they really don't understand what they're dealing with.

pennview wrote:The other problem is sending lawyers to state capitals and Washington, DC to represent us. Stop sending lawyers and we'll stop seeing stupid legislation. Lawyers have the idea that something is wrong with everything and someone is responsible or irresponsible, so they pass idiotic legislation because they really don't understand what they're dealing with.

I totally agree but the majority of the voters have a me-first attitude these days. With no concept of what duties our government is supposed to perform. Voters simply want the government to pull a rabbit out of its hat and make the world peachy for them, regardless of the consequence. My gal is an MD, (pshyciatrist) it is the same with a large number of today's patients. PT goes to the Doc's office and expects to be fixed. Then they jump doctor's offices until they realize that there is no fix. (in some cases) One of my co-workers jumped doctors until he found one that would issue him a 215 card so he could sleep. Then he convinces this guy that he needs an MRI because he is approaching 60 and his hearing is bad. Might be a tumor ya know. Now the custom hearing aids are running down the batteries too quickly. (his expense, can't pass that one along... yet.) So he isn't using them.

Back to SawStop, the people who will really get their TITW are the contractors that don't even follow these subjects, have an older contractor saw in use when one of their employees gets injured after this is made into legislation.