Shopsmith Forums

Hi 8iowa,

8iowa wrote:chettrick:

............ With my shop set-up in this manner I don't see how stand alone tools would offer any advantages.

I like my 510. I also like stand alones. The advantages of stand alones may be few, but they are there. IMHO, there are no advantages to stand alones unless you have the room.

First off, even though changing modes on the Mark V are quick, you still have to do them. Not so with stand alones.
Secondly, if you do have the room for a stand alone table saw, with a permanant outfeed table, it is much easier to handle large sheet goods. No setting up saw horses; No electric cords getting in the way; No stretching across your work; No going outside to cut the sheets down to size; No using clamp on guides; etc.

In my old home, I used 1/2 of my two car garage part time as my shop. I learned to like my 510 there. Then I designed and built a house the way that I wanted it. For a home shop, I have a rather large dedicated area to work in. My shop is roughly 25' by 25'. That does not include another area for lumber storage. My stand alone 12" table saw takes up its place in the center of the shop. Even so, it is located in front of a garage door, making it easy to rip long boards if the need arises (The garage door is to make bringing in materials and bringing out finished projects easy, not for driving a car through).

My 510 has many advantages over stand alones, even in my large shop: Variable speeds; allows the operator to change modes without having to change other aspects of the setup; easiest and fastest table saw blade change in the world; maneuverability; a horizontal boring machine; a drill press that can create pocket holes; customer service; and those are just what I come up with without concentrating.

I believe that I have the best of both worlds. There is a time and a place for everything.

Tim:

The stand alone vs Shopsmith arguement will go on forever, however I think most of us here will agree that if you only have 200 square feet or so to work in and limited electrical capacity the advantages are with the Shopsmith. When we owned our busines, I had a frequent need to cut 4'x8' sheets to make utility shelving. I used my Shopsmith, and with a helper got alone fine - sort of a do what you have to do with what you have situation. A big cabinet maker's table saw with generous infeed and outfeed tables would of course been better, but a large and electrially hungry machine like that would have been out of the question in my small garage space. Fortunately most of my 4'x8' sheets were 1/2 inch thick. The occasional need to cut 3/4 plywood was more difficult due to the weight, especially if my wife was my helper.

In my new U.P. shop I am blessed with abundant local supplies of pine and hardwoods. I don't forsee any need to cut large sheet goods on a regular basis. Even though I now have the space for a large table saw I will not be going that route. The two Shopsmiths will give me a lot of flexability. My son, son-in-law, and brother can join me in the shop and work separately on their projects without having to queue up to use a saw.

Interestingly enough, I have read several books on setting up small shops published by Taunton Press (Fine Woodworking magazine). There is a lot of good information provided, however, all the shops feature stand alone tools, most of which are on various types of mobile bases. I remember one picture of a guy shoving around a heavy jointer and got to thinking "Why don't they have at least one shop example of using a Shopsmith? Do they think that stand alone tools are so advantageous that it justifies the heavy work of moving around machines that weigh 500 or more pounds?" It would seem to me that changing modes on a Shopsmith is much quicker and easier in comparison. I sent an email to Taunton asking them these questions. Naturally I've not received any response.

Hi 8iowa,

The stand alone vs Shopsmith arguement will go on forever, however I think most of us here will agree that if you only have 200 square feet or so to work in and limited electrical capacity the advantages are with the Shopsmith.

I absolutely agree with you, as I said: IMHO, there are no advantages to stand alones unless you have the room.

When we owned our busines, I had a frequent need to cut 4'x8' sheets to make utility shelving. I used my Shopsmith, and with a helper got alone fine - sort of a do what you have to do with what you have situation.

Again, I agree with you, and I find myself working alone most of the time, so cutting large panels can be difficult using the Mark V. Been there, done that.

A big cabinet maker's table saw with generous infeed and outfeed tables would of course been better, but a large and electrially hungry machine like that would have been out of the question in my small garage space.

So, I see that you do agree with me:D .

Interestingly enough, I have read several books on setting up small shops published by Taunton Press (Fine Woodworking magazine). There is a lot of good information provided, however, all the shops feature stand alone tools, most of which are on various types of mobile bases. I remember one picture of a guy shoving around a heavy jointer and got to thinking "Why don't they have at least one shop example of using a Shopsmith? Do they think that stand alone tools are so advantageous that it justifies the heavy work of moving around machines that weigh 500 or more pounds?" It would seem to me that changing modes on a Shopsmith is much quicker and easier in comparison. I sent an email to Taunton asking them these questions. Naturally I've not received any response.

Naturally. BTW, My table saw is on a mobile base, but I have not moved it since I placed it.

Tim:

I think it's time (even past time) for a book/DVD/on-line video featuring small woodworking shops that utilize the Shopsmith. Taunton will never do this. I'm sure that there are many good shop examples to be found from members on this forum.

There could be a lot of good tips on shop layout, flooring, heating, electrical & lighting, workbenches, lumber storage, and much more. Shops in garages, basements, atics, and separate buildings could be featured with comments and suggestions from the owners. It could include hobbiests, semi-pro, and even some full professional operations.

This wouldn't necessarilly be an out and out Shopsmith advertisement, but it would give a lot of exposure. Actually, in many of Nick Engler's books, there are some photos of Shopsmiths and Shopsmith accessories but in most cases you have to know what you are looking at in order to know.

There is a need to inform new woodworkers, both in the home and in small shops that there is an alternative to shoving around heavy machinery.

Hi 8iowa,

8iowa wrote:Tim:

I think it's time (even past time) for a book/DVD/on-line video featuring small woodworking shops that utilize the Shopsmith. Taunton will never do this. I'm sure that there are many good shop examples to be found from members on this forum.

There could be a lot of good tips on shop layout, flooring, heating, electrical & lighting, workbenches, lumber storage, and much more. Shops in garages, basements, atics, and separate buildings could be featured with comments and suggestions from the owners. It could include hobbiests, semi-pro, and even some full professional operations.

This wouldn't necessarilly be an out and out Shopsmith advertisement, but it would give a lot of exposure. Actually, in many of Nick Engler's books, there are some photos of Shopsmiths and Shopsmith accessories but in most cases you have to know what you are looking at in order to know.

There is a need to inform new woodworkers, both in the home and in small shops that there is an alternative to shoving around heavy machinery.

Sounds good to me:) .

Awhile back in one of the WW mags' shops of the year special edition (I forget which one just now) something like 3 of the 5 shops featured had Mark V's in them. Yet we don't see any articles where a Shopsmith is used.

IMNTBHO this is because the "vast stand alone conspiracy" is laboring under the mistaken impression that somehow woodworking on a Mark V is radically different than woodworking the "regular" way. I've had this exchange with an editor or two now and then as well as several WW authors and they all seem to think we want articles and books about Shopsmith machines when in fact it's that we'd like to see woodworking articles, just like the ones they have now where Shopsmith machinery is used to build the project.

I forget what the installed base is supposed to be but I've heard that since the introduction of the 10E back in the day over a million machines have been sold. Regardless and regardless how many are still in use the Yahoo users list has more subscribers than the published circulation of some WW mags.

But I'm probably preaching to the choir here.

You go Doc!:D

DrG wrote:" ... I forget what the installed base is supposed to be but I've heard that since the introduction of the 10E back in the day over a million machines have been sold. Regardless and regardless how many are still in use the Yahoo users list has more subscribers than the published circulation of some WW mags.

But I'm probably preaching to the choir here.

That's impressive DrG! However, if I were on the board of a WW mag. - I also, would work toward showing and featuring products of our advertising vendors. I would also work to shun those refusing to place adds! That is, unless we were in negotiations concerning ads.

Advertizing income is the bread and butter for these mags. Look at the recent coverage given to Festool and Steel City tools have achieved through a little spending on adds. Even European multipurpose machines have been reviewed in articles - They also advertized!!!

Shopsmith absolutely refuses to spend the bucks to place adds in WW magazines. Why? I'll never understand. They report, they tried it once and it didn't work. It is Shopsmith's super paradigm. Kinda like the guy who got sick after his 1st workout and never did it again - not realizing that he is shortening his life because of his reluctance!

I agree you can influence editorial with advertising but just advertising will not get you editorial without news. The European machines are new, so is Festool and Steel City tools, even Sand Flee is getting coverage because it is new. The RingMaster has been advertising but not getting coverage because it is not new.

If you have something NEW you may get coverage because the magazines hope you will advertise in the future or at least in the issue where your product appears.

Woodcrafter Magazine is doing a series on "Top Shops" and this month they featured tools that cost more than most peoples cars and those companies never advertised but they were unique (NEW). The shop was 1,100 square feet, now if they or someone else does an article on a 120 SQ FT shop it would have to be a Shopsmith (or clone) but who is pitching that article.
More people who read Wood have closer to a 120 SQ FT shop than 1,000 SQ FT but there is more news in 1,000 SQ FT with all the NEW large tools.

I would bet if someone pitched a full shop in under 400 SQ FT with a few projects you would get coverage without advertising.

My division has stopped all paper advertising, we only advertise on-line. We spend less and do much better. We still do press tours to the editorial staffs of the paper magazines when we have NEWS and we get great coverage. We also invite the editorial staff to briefings about what is new, sometimes we do it online with WebEX. Nick could use his Webcast but he has to have news.

On DIY there is a new show called Cool Tools, most (if not all) of the companies featured do not advertise on the show but they have an interesting story. Plus some offer the show factory tours, which makes it more interesting. There is also the "Made in America" show on the Travel Channel, again no advertising required but a message. What other power tools are made in America, they have featured Channel Lock in the past.

I think you're correct, Charlese and that's probably the way those editorial boards think. In fact sometimes I think they all think alike or they have some secret society and that's why we keep seeing multiple mags featuring articles based on the same subject in the same month! What was it last month, raised panels or something?

But all of us Shopsmith owners buy a lot of glue, screws, sandpaper, finishing supplies, hardware, woodworking gadgetry, etc. I suppose they think we'll read them anyway and they're probably right, at least in my case.

Being a loyal Shopsmith owner is a hard life but somebody has to lead it.