Which end is which?

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:38 pm

Paul
You do realize if you look at the shopsmith from the speed control side the Headstock end is on the left.

Now turn the machine upside down and again view the shopsmith from the speed control side the at the Headstock end is going to be on the right.

If you simply turn the shopsmith upside down the ends won't swap but the do when you walk around it to keep the speedcontrol in sight.

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:13 pm

Wow I have read this twice and am more confused now than when I read it the first time. I have upgraded two Mark V 520's to the new double tilt. I had no problem. So if I confuse everyone, tough! The offset lock lock for use while in drill press mode is on the front side right end. Except that it is on the left end rear for the left end. Both ends are identical which explains why that aforementioned lock is on a different side of machine when completed. In fact my feeble brain cannot see how it would be possible for this to be different. As to the lift assist it is designed to be mounted on the right end when looking at the machine turned upright from the front (switch side). Important, if you are also upgrading to the Power Pro be certain to upgrade the cylinder on the lift assist as the newer headstock is heavier and the lighter tube will not do the job. Have I confused you, if so sorry, or maybe not as this thread certainly confused my older feeble mind. Oh yes I did go look before I risked confusing the issue even further. Jim

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:02 am

fjimp wrote:Wow I have read this twice and am more confused now than when I read it the first time. I have upgraded two Mark V 520's to the new double tilt. I had no problem. So if I confuse everyone, tough! The offset lock lock for use while in drill press mode is on the front side right end. Except that it is on the left end rear for the left end. Both ends are identical which explains why that aforementioned lock is on a different side of machine when completed. In fact my feeble brain cannot see how it would be possible for this to be different. As to the lift assist it is designed to be mounted on the right end when looking at the machine turned upright from the front (switch side). Important, if you are also upgrading to the Power Pro be certain to upgrade the cylinder on the lift assist as the newer headstock is heavier and the lighter tube will not do the job. Have I confused you, if so sorry, or maybe not as this thread certainly confused my older feeble mind. Oh yes I did go look before I risked confusing the issue even further. Jim

All that makes perfect sense to me!

paulmcohen · Post by **paulmcohen** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:24 am

fixit wrote:Could it be that "someone" removed the headstock from the way tubes and replaced it "backwards"? I'm just sayin'.

Stranger things have happened. Don't ask me how I know.

Then the drill press would not work and the shaper would and that is no the case. I am proceeding assume the the instructions are wrong and after the upgrade it will not matter.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:55 am

paulmcohen wrote:I finally got my machine upside down and started the double-tilt upgrade. I went to remove the "left end" which has the headstock lock but found my headstock lock on the right end. As far as I know it has been this way since I got the machine. Now the question is once the double-tilt is installed are the end-symmetric. If not I would have to a complicated procedure to get it back together. My lift-assist is currently on the left. All the ends are labeled looking at the PowerPro display.

I am not even sure the instructions are not just messed up, it seems like the drill press would not have worked if the lock was not on the right side.

I assume you referring to the Headrest Handle (#15)? Yes, when standing in the normal operator's position, the Headrest Handle is on the operator's left.

If you have ever used the machine as a drill press, the Headrest Handle could not have been on the "right".

If you have walked around to the back side of the Mark V and are now looking at the machine, the Headrest Lock is on your right.

I fully understand this situation. I received very low scores in Air Force tests for abstract reasoning. This is sorta the same thing. I am forever drilling holes in the wrong end or cutting dadoes in the wrong place because the parts are located differently than in the plan I am looking at. All because I flipped it over or turned it around.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:09 am

paulmcohen wrote:When the legs are up and I am looking at the power switch, the latch is on the right. According to the Shopsmith directions left are right don't matter which side is up and I don't see how that is possible. They say the latch is on the left when the machine is upside down and you are facing the power switch.

I am beginning to think the instructions need work.

With that said if the double-tilt parts identical for both sides, it doesn't matter and I can just proceed as soon as I get some replacement lock washers.

This is impossible unless you have taken the Headstock off the tubes and turned it end for end and put it back OR you are reading the instructions incorrectly.

According to the part numbers, the two ends are the same.

Side Comment: I am quite confused by what I am reading here. If I was doing this, the Headstock (power switch) would not be involved at all. I would have removed the Headstock and Carriage and set them aside.

Having done that, all that I would be working with are the legs, tubes, headrest and base assy and tie bar. Possibly the lift assist and caster assemblies would be involved also.

Good Luck, Paul. Hope you get back to making sawdust without consequence.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:11 pm

Gentlemen!

Listen to Dusty!

A few posts back he stated that the 'left' end 'by definition' is the end to the left when viewed from the operator's position, and the 'right' end 'by definition' is the end to the right when viewed from the operator's position and remains so regardless of subsequent repositioning of the machine or the 'viewer'.

That means the 'clamp' end IS the 'left' end regardless of where that end appears from ANY vantage point.

Adhere to that, and all this l/r confusion vaporizes.

Dusty understood that and the Air Force thinks him weak in 'abstract reasoning'(what ever that is?).

Consider an automobile manufactured for use in the good ol USA.

'By definition', the 'drivers' side is the 'right' side as viewed from the front bumper.

'By definition', the 'passenger' side is the 'left' side as viewed from the front bumper.

Now walk around and look from the rear bumper.

The 'drivers' side is now on the viewer's left, but 'by definition' is still the 'right' side.

The 'passenger' side is now on the viewer's right, but 'by definition' is still the 'left' side.

Same situation if the car is rolled on to it's roof and viewed from the front bumper 'driver's'('right') side appears to the viewer's left etc.

Left/right is ambiguous since it always depends upon the point of view.

I believe the creator's of the 'procedure' meant the left/right designation to be 'as viewed from the power switch side with the SS legs setting on the floor(pointing down) and the viewer standing in a normal upright position with it's(the viewer) legs also setting on the floor'.

The 'clamp' end remains the 'left' end even though when the SS is upside down the 'clamp' end appears to the right when viewed from the power switch side.

Abstract Reasoning exercise of the month!:D

MikeG · Post by **MikeG** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:11 pm

JPG40504 wrote: Consider an automobile manufactured for use in the good ol USA.

'By definition', the 'drivers' side is the 'right' side as viewed from the front bumper.

'By definition', the 'passenger' side is the 'left' side as viewed from the front bumper.

Now walk around and look from the rear bumper.

The 'drivers' side is now on the viewer's left, but 'by definition' is still the 'right' side.

The 'passenger' side is now on the viewer's right, but 'by definition' is still the 'left' side.

Same situation if the car is rolled on to it's roof and viewed from the front bumper 'driver's'('right') side appears to the viewer's left etc.

Left/right is ambiguous since it always depends upon the point of view.

This is why we identified the sides as "curb side" and "street side" when specifying locations in the manufacturing of aerial lift trucks. Note that we did not roll them on the roof, so that orientation didn't cause a problem with our labels.

moose · Post by **moose** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:37 pm

So JPG...when you finish your nap, please enlighten me as I am totally confused. Not considering definition or viewers perspective, which side of a US manufactured automobile is considered the drivers side?

oldc6 · Post by **oldc6** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:07 pm

I was a mechanic, service manger all my working years.

It always was a problem this left and right thing.

I would tell people that everthing goes by the driver behind the wheel.

thus left side is drivers side and right side is passenger side.

Example: customer says left rear tires leaks air. then i would ask,:rolleyes:

:: do you mean on the drivers said and the reply would be no, the passenger side!!!

The solution was never ask left or right. Always say passenger side or
drivers side of vehicle.........

Shopsmith Forums

Which end is which?

lefty,,,, righty