ShopSmith Logo

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:46 am

Hi Ed,

I agree with you, but are we understanding exactly what is being said? I read that as messages that we give to SS, which I do not believe, includes posts given to other forum members. I may be wrong, after all I am no attorney, but it would be nice if someone at SS chimed in and set a few things straight.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:17 am

If you guys want to learn something about Copyright or Patent law just let yourself get crosswise with Disney, or IBM. I've done business with both.

The letter of the law allows them to take action as soon as you infringe upon their rights. You have infringed as soon as you "profit" from their product line (their name) in any way shape or form. Bettering your own business status by association can be determined to be infringement.

Hanging the Shopsmith logo on the wall in your shop, unless you are somehow in competition with Shopsmith, does not better your position. In fact, this amounts to free advertising.

Don't put a copyrighted logo on "products" that you have built; especially if you market those products. This could be determined as "infringement by association".

Build wooden trucks that look just like old Ford trucks and you may sell a bundle of them. Build those same wooden trucks and attach a replica of the Ford trademark emblem and you could find yourself in hot water. If the Ford legal staff determines that you have, in anyway impacted their bottom line or improved your bottom line, chances are even better.

I have a set of three ring binders that are labeled with the Shopsmith logo. Probably the same logo that started this thread. I made my own rather than buy "Shopsmith" binders. Have I infringed? I don't think so.

I use a shop apron with the Shopsmith logo on it. It was not purchased from Shopsmith. Shopsmith did not produce or have it produced. Have I infringed? I don't think so.

Take orders for these at the next TA and I would probably hear from the Shopsmith legal staff.

Incidently, Shopsmith used to sell a wall clock with the Shopsmith logo. It must not have been a big seller - it's no longer available.

Ed Reible has posed a situation that I am waiting to hear about - hopefully from Shopsmith directly. What is the legal status of "anything" posted on this website. Once posted, I suspect that because it has entered into the public domain, Shopsmith has a right to use it. Because it is in the public domain, I don't see how copyright law can protect it.

Ed's fantastic photo library for example. I have down loaded several of Ed's photos and I reference them from time to time. Have I infringed on Ed's rights? I don't think so. I believe I am doing with them what Ed intended me to do when he posted them. I am using them for personal reference.

When I market copies of something that Ed has posted - I should expect to hear nasty words from Ed.

I am really looking forward to the comments on this thread.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:53 pm

Dusty - I think you are telling me; If I build a model race car and put on a Ford emblem - then sell it - I may get sued. Are we over-thinking this?

Happy New Year!

Gampa · Post by **Gampa** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:18 pm

Sorry for starting a legalese battle. Just need a new clock in the shop and seeing as how everything else in the shop has the Shopsmith Logo on it thought it would be great to have the clock have it to. Will wait to see if Admin chimes in or will give SS a call next time I have enough time off when they are available.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:31 pm

Oh, that's O.K. Walt! A couple of the reasons this Forum is so good is, 1) It is friendly and 2) Any question at any given time will bring on a flurry of comments.

Happy New Year!!!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:57 pm

Whoa, WHOA, WOAH! I appreciate -- and I'm sure everyone else here at Shopsmith appreciates -- your concern over the proper and legal use of our logo. (I wish some of you folks would should a similar respect for our other intellectual properties, i.e. Sawdust Session videos.) Paul is incorrect; "fair use" does NOT give Gampa the right to copy a regstered logo. If you'd like a short explanation of what "fair use" really means, I've included one in the Hands Online! FAQ, http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/FAQ.html .

However, Shopsmith is not Disney -- or "Mousewitz" as some of my friends in the entertainment business refer to it. We aren't trying to prevent hordes of the intellectually impoverished from making cheap stuffed toys that resemble Shopsmith tools or sex-soaked videos that star a Nick Engler cartoon caricature. (Although, let em tell you, I'd give five bucks to see one.) I am -- and I am sure everyone else here at Shopsmith is as well -- honored, pleased, and appreciative that Gampa would think to make a clock for his shop from our logo. While we can discuss the legal ramifications of his project till the cows come home; the human ramifications are beyond argument: We made a quality tool, backed it up with quality service, and Gampa thinks enough of our efforts to display our logo in his shop. We would be stupid and insensitive beyond imagination not give him permission and thank him for doing so.

Gampa, I'll be sending you a high-resolution digital copy of our logo with the understanding that it be used only as you described in this thread and not shared with anyone else. From all of us at Shopsmith, a very Happy New Year.

With all good wishes,

Gampa · Post by **Gampa** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:59 pm

I knew I loved this company for a reason. They not only make great tools but use common sense and have a great heart. Guaranteed the only place the Logo will be used is as stated in this thread. Thanks Nick

W3DRM · Post by **W3DRM** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:48 pm

Okay Nick, with your reply you've probably started something here that many of us will want to duplicate - a Shopsmith Clock!

Any chance of putting the high-res image on the website so all of us can get to it? Of course, it goes without saying that usage will be strictly as you have indicated to GAMPA.

Thanks for the response and cooperation of all at Shopsmith.

Hmmm, just thinking out loud - wouldn't it be nice to have a standardized clock layout pattern for those of us who are challenged in the drawing department to use. Anyone want to donate their plans?...

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:24 pm

drmcroberts,

As Dusty already pointed out in post #5 of this thread:

Shopsmith Logo
Read the thread. It speaks to use of the logo.

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/show...ight=wallpaper
__________________
(dusty)
Tucson, AZ
Making Sawdust Safely
"A clean shop is an idle place"

There already is one.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:59 pm

Folks, I've got to be just a little corporate here. As much as I love Alan's updated design of our logo -- I used it in the Hands Online! masthead -- it has one serious flaw. There is no registration mark (R) and for some very good legal reasons there needs to be. I'll be glad to add a registration mark and repost it here, but I want all of you to pay careful attention to Alan's wishes as he expressed them in his post. This is partly his intellectual property, after all.

And I'll be glad to make a clock for one of the upcoming Sawdust Sessions and post the plans. It'll give you guys an excuse to buy some more tools.

With all good wishes,