eye opening vid

algale · Post by **algale** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:00 pm

dusty wrote:I don't advocate supporting the whole world. If the uninvited guests were all made legal, at least some of them would be paying their share of taxes thus reducing the burden.

On the news, they report that only 46% of us pay income tax. What I would like to know is who are these people. Why do they not pay. If it because they live on a little to nothing - I understand. If they, however, avoid taxes, I then advocate that they be sought out and be made to pay.

OR Tell me how I can avoid to pay them.

A married couple with two children will not pay federal income taxes if they earn, combined, $26,400 or less. They will pay payroll taxes.

holsgo · Post by **holsgo** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:29 pm

Dforeman, to your point National Geographic did a series called aftermath population overload. The tipping point seems to be 12-14 billion people worldwide. The show picks up at that very number. It shows water issues...hell, every issue is featured leaving us with a total border closure, war over water a population existing around the Great Lakes and massive die off back to 1950s numbers.
There seem to be only 2 types of guaranteed sources of war, oil and water. And by all estimates it seems we will eventually fight for one or the other sooner rather than later.
As far as taxes, it's clear not enough is being collected for the amount paid out in social safety net. Whether we like it or not there is only one way into the black ink and it is going to hurt all the way around cuz if we don't pay it your kids and grand kids will...or worse yet they'll fight each other over it.

fredsheldon · Post by **fredsheldon** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:48 pm

All I know is I had my garage A/C and electrical plugs installed by a group of hard workers who didn't speak English but did the job in half the time and 1/2 the cost my local English speaking contractor wanted to charge. Another team of hard non-English speaking workers installed my underground sprinkler system the following weekend for $1,000 less than my English speaking local installer wanted. I was born and raised 4 miles from the Mexican border in southern Texas. 85% of my High School class were Mexicans. My family was dirt poor and we paid no taxes because we didn't even make minimum wage. I have a hard time accepting the notion that we need to send them all back to Mexico. They are my friends.

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:21 am

Fred, I hope you can find those guys if something goes wrong with your electrical installation or sprinkler system. And, there is a reason that the certified electrician charges what he does and it has little to do with the fact that he speaks English. And, there are local and national codes to follow. And, if something does go wrong, who are you going to complain to?

holsgo · Post by **holsgo** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:37 am

Pennview hit point I was going to make but I'll add that the very American electrician that charges more no doubt pays business, federal and state and payroll taxes adding to to about 40% more on the job costs. Numbers reflected in costs savings at the consumer level are a debt at the federal and state. Not an opinion, just fact. You can't be pro American worker with better benefits, higher pay and retirement and drive down the debt and still buy elsewhere. Vote with the wallet.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:06 am

I tend to disagree to some extent with some of the assumptions made here. Example doing electrical or plumbing work and assuming they weren't qualified or licensed. We don't know if they were or not.

Here is my story we were building houses and our sheetrock sub used all immigrant workers. I asked why. He told me that when he and his brother were younger they hung the dry wall and averaged about 140-160 sheets a day a piece. Now remember it was their business and their effort went directly into their pockets. As they got older they couldn't handle the sheets so they had to farm that portion of the job out. They still did all the taping and finish.

The found if they hired American workers the sheet average was between 80-100 sheets a day constantly. They also found if they used immigrant workers the average was 100-120 sheets a day. In both case they paid by number of sheets installed. While he was paid by the job and only when it was finished. So the cost to him per sheet was the same the only thing that changed was how many jobs he could do a day. He asked me who I would use I agreed the immigrant workers.

I watched the immigrants work and they were all business, that got paid by number of bonding strips they turned in each day. The bonding strips are used to hold two sheets together. As they tore them off they tied them on to their belts and this is how they were paid.

One thing I did notice they all claimed not to be able to talk english but they all swore in english.

I have another friend that does stone work, he could not find an American labor that will do this work. They simply won't do it or are so unreliable you never know when they will show up.

My buddy knows the job because when his Dad was running the business before him, he and his brother were the laborers. So he knows the work and is fair and pays better than average. Still no go, he is now using immigrants, in fact one is so good my buddy is teaching him the business and they have a deal where one day the business will be his.

I can go on and on about people with good jobs that really tried to hire American workers but can't or found them such bad workers they had to go to the immigrants. Sure there are good American workers I know many but there aren't enough to fill the number of jobs that need to be done.

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:19 am

Well, I can add this: it is illegal to knowingly hire illegal aliens, whether you're a business or an individual.

fredsheldon · Post by **fredsheldon** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:50 am

Who said they were illegal aliens? They were paid by check and had valid business cards and invoices. Just saying that they didn't speak English and have brown skin and they did good work for less. All brown skinned Spanish speaking individuals I know are hard working honest people. They pay taxes and purchase our goods and services.

holsgo · Post by **holsgo** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:48 pm

We could go around and around. Bottom lining this whole thing is:
1-we have a huge problem. Illegal is illegal regardless.
2-we simply have to fix illegal and legal immigration. It's broke and we all know it. And the fix will be painful.
3-we better get taxes and debt under control. And we all will feel the pain on social cuts. Everyone. We are out of money.
4-overpopulation is real. Whether we head it off now or later we will be dealing with it. This problem will make illegal immigration seem like a traffic ticket.
All I wanted to do was pass on an informative video. Watch it or not doesn't change the problem. The issue is a very divisive one and no matter where you fall we have got to deal with it and all the other big issues. Social politics will seem tiny compared to a Greek like issue here in the states.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:55 pm

In my examples they were not illegal aliens, but they were immigrants that came to this country to work because they didn't have work in their county and work they did. In fact in almost every case they worked a lot harder than their American counterparts.

Seriously guys this is a problem, if it weren't for immigrants some jobs just would not get done. Sure they are usually hot dirty jobs but in many cases you can earn a ton of money doing them and you don't have to put up with a bunch of crap doing it.