Shopsmith Forums

judaspre1982 wrote:The real losers in the whole ethanol sham is the marine industry. Outboard powered vessels use fuel tanks that are vented to the atmosphere,therefore presenting the serious problem of the ethanol obsorbing the moister from the air.The ethanol has been known to deteriorate fuel lines and gaskets even when they are rated for E10.Two stroke motors are designed to take up to E10, but the biggest problem is the blends that reach the pumps are not always as advertised. In some instances in the past, fuel samples have been as high as E20 on engines being tested for failures.

A long time ago the marine industry was one of the first industries to take one on the chin. Boat manufactures used to put in molded fiberglass tanks below decks. The ethanol broke down the resins in the tank and slowly degraded the tank until the pick up tube became clogged and starved the 2 stroke engines of it's fuel/oil mixture.
The same type of failures happened to modern outboards only it was the rubber/plastic parts doing the deteriorating.

ETHANOL BAD!:mad: ---in more ways than one.

Dave

I'm told that all the marinas down here sell ethanol free gas. My neighbor claims that is where he buys his lawn products gas.

I have the normal lawn care tools and a 1991 Harley. none of them can handle E-10 for very long. I have been adding two ounces of Sta-Bil and two ounces of Marvel MO to the motorcycle and it has survived since the E came in the gas. I also treat the lawn equipment the same way and for the two stroke stuff, I add the proper amount of oil. had the weedeater for about 8 years now and it runs everytime.......this seems to work for me.

And when i can get to it, I run the Harley to the non-E place and put some real gas in it!! and always adding the MMO

Best to all, bill

I'm not a big fan of the ethanol mandate, but I can't help but wonder if it gets blamed for unrelated engine problems. My '72 Moto Guzzi drinks it up like chianti.

I still buy and use real gasoline in my gasoline engines. I use corn alcohol only for drinking myself. It doesn't do as much damage on me as it does to engines.

garys wrote:I still buy and use real gasoline in my gasoline engines. I use corn alcohol only for drinking myself. It doesn't do as much damage on me as it does to engines.

Give it time. Give it time.

davebodner wrote:I'm not a big fan of the ethanol mandate, but I can't help but wonder if it gets blamed for unrelated engine problems. My '72 Moto Guzzi drinks it up like chianti.

I very firmly believe what you are saying... I have ran it for many years in cars trucks and a bunch of old tractors (some from back in the 1940's) and in all kinds of 2 cycle engines like string trimmers and chainsaws and 4 cycle small engines on walking and riding mowers.

I HAVE HAD NONE OF THE PROBLEMS EVERYBODY KEEPS CLAIMING THE PRODUCT CAUSES...

I have had clogged fuel filters and have bought gas in a clean can from a station only to find a large bunch of crap collected on the fine screen of my funnel. I do find that I must replace rubber fuel lines on tractors every 15 or 20 years because of sun exposure.
Here on the farm I always kept a 300 diesel tank, a 300 gallon gasoline tank, a 300 gallon propane tractor fill tank and also a 275 gallon E-10 tank just for my mother's cars (from back in the days before E-10 was generally available at the pump).
My mother bought a new 1978 Dodge Aspen with a 318 lean burn V-8 in 1978 and for the next 20 years that car was ran as a daily driver with nothing put in the fuel tank but E-10, ever... It had the "black box" replaced under warranty when new and after the warranty ran out I personally took care of all maintenance on it (as well as everything else around here) and about all I ever did to that car beyond routine maintenance was to replace the black box after about 15 years. I did replace a fuel pump on it at about 120,000 miles. The carburetor was never touched during its life here and I sold it as a good running car with an excellent engine and drive train. The same could not be said for the body which in spite of being Ziebarted when new found a number of excuses to rust through... I guess I could blame the body rust on the E-10...
There is a posting I made on here somewhere telling about a lawn tractor I bought for a song from Wally World that a "so called" mechanic they sent it to could not make run. It was bought new and ran a half tank of gas through it and quit. The customer brought it back and they gave him another tractor. They puttered with it and could not start it so they had a small engine shop pick it up to fix it. He returned it and said he could not make it run. I bought it for about a 3rd of new price and took it home. I had a good idea what was wrong with it. I refilled the half empty fuel tank (nobody else had) and started it up and mowed my yard with it and I still use it. It is now maybe 5 years old and runs fine (with E-10). I'm sure that the fuel pump just had a chunk of crud in a check valve which cleared itself by the time the fuel got down to a half tank a second time. During the first half tank it was running as a gravity feed. I figured that out at the store when I realized that the half tank level was the same as the level of the carburetor. It is hard telling what that "mechanic" claimed what was wrong with it. Maybe that someone put E-10 in it and ruined the engine...

There is a huge quality disparity among "mechanics". Some are truly excellent. Some shouldn't own tools...
One time many years ago I needed a cheap walking mower for trimming use. I stopped at a local dealer and asked if he had something really cheap. I didn't care if it needed a bit of repair. He told me that he had one that he took in on trade that looked good but that his "mechanic" could not get to run. It did look good all over so I gave him $10 for it. When I got home I started looking it over and found that the adjusting needle for the main jet was missing. I dug one out of my used parts stash and put in it and it ran fine. I used it for years. Exactly how do you (as a "professional mechanic") try to make a lawnmower engine run and not have checked the main jet??? Some "mechanics" are better than others. Some of the lousy ones are best at making up excuses...

Now do you want to hear something really scary? Some of our doctors are the same way. Some were at the top of their class, some were at the bottom. If you look at their degree on the wall it will not tell you which one they were... Now that is scary.

Oops, ramble...


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robinson46176 wrote: Now do you want to hear something really scary? Some of our doctors are the same way. Some were at the top of their class, some were at the bottom. If you look at their degree on the wall it will not tell you which one they were... Now that is scary.

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Man, is that ever the truth! Amazing how many people would get a second and third opinion on repairing most anything except themselves. It always drives my nuts when mechanics, especially at places like dealerships, just play the guessing game when it comes to diagnosing and repairing your car...it's easier to guess and just start replacing overpriced parts at your expense, regardless of whether they needed replacing or were ultimately found to be related to the problem) then it is to be a true mechanic and use deductive reasoning to determine what's wrong. Funny thing is, this is often exactly what Doctors do - some things are easy to diagnose but for the more confusing or mysterious malady, I often see them jump to the guessing game. Whether it's your car or your body, you need to be your own best advocate and triple guess anyting you hear from the "experts".

Farmer
Okay I got one for you since you are good at diagnostics from being told what the machine does.
I have a Toro Lawn Tractor about 12 years old. This last year it has become hard to start when the engine is cold. It will crank and crank and finally it will catch and start. The exhaust is wet sprays a nasty mix on the wall the exhaust is pointed at and it is a light gray color. After this start the engine starts with almost no cranking.

I changed the spark plug no help. I have sprayed the carb with starter fluid no help. Once started the exhaust is dry and it starts with no problem. I'm in Florida and the machine is garage kept so it is the temp of the garage when I try to start it. 80-90 degree range

Well I had to mow the lawn right before I put up the Christmas decorations and the thing started instantly 60-70 degree range. Now remember it starts instantly when hot.

When starting I put the throttle in start position, full throttle with auto choke and begin cranking. I have tried in to start in the run position choke off throttle full on. And in the slow idle again choke off and throttle is idle position. Nothing helps just crank crank crank until a sputter and then a running engine.

Other than changing oil, cleaning and replacing the air filter and normal maintance I haven't done a thing to the machine. This problem started this year for the first time.
Any guesses???????

The only problem I've had with E-10 is that it caused the gas cap on my Poulan chain saw to swell, which in turn makes removing and replacing the cap extremely difficult. My first Poulan chain saw had this same problem and I replaced it with another Poulan when the original one kept stalling despite several repair. Since I had two new chains for the saw, I figured I'd get another Poulan, after looking over several Stihl and Husqvarna models. When the cap on the second one began giving me problems, I called Poulan and was told that the ethanol was causing the swelling. I was told to put the cap in the sun for a few hours and that would correct the problem. Well, that didn't work so I took some sandpaper to the threads and was able to remove and install the cap. I now keep the chain saw lying on its side so the E-10 doesn't stay in contact with the cap.

I haven't had any E-10 related problems myself, but I know a Harley mechanic that has an independent shop and another guy that has an ATV repair business and both say that most of their business these days comes from ethanol damage to the fuel system.

But even if ethanol doesn't do damage, I find it incredibly stupid to convert food to gasoline when there are so many hungry people in the world and so much oil buried under it.