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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:28 am
by mada1
From what I have been told, by my wife's brother, this 10ER was definitely powered by 220v. The motor plate does say 220 / 110 as its power sources. However there is no indication of wiring differences for each source. I am an electronics technician and have done a lot of wiring over the years on radiology equipment. It has been my experience that those two voltages, as inputs, are wired differently. Typically, one has two hots and a ground, the other has one hot, a ground, and a neutral. Since neutral and ground are essentially the same (for the 120v circuit), at the breaker box, where they go at the device being powered is important. I certainly do not want to burn up the motor but I also do not want to create a hazard.
Thanks for all the quick replies!
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:52 am
by beeg
Can you check the plug where he plugged it in?
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:52 pm
by JPG
mada1 wrote:From what I have been told, by my wife's brother, this 10ER was definitely powered by 220v. The motor plate does say 220 / 110 as its power sources. However there is no indication of wiring differences for each source. I am an electronics technician and have done a lot of wiring over the years on radiology equipment. It has been my experience that those two voltages, as inputs, are wired differently. Typically, one has two hots and a ground, the other has one hot, a ground, and a neutral. Since neutral and ground are essentially the same (for the 120v circuit), at the breaker box, where they go at the device being powered is important. I certainly do not want to burn up the motor but I also do not want to create a hazard.
Thanks for all the quick replies!
You ARE correct re 'typical' 230v 'appliance'. Particularly so if it of the 'portable' variety and HAS a 'linecord' with a plug attached(3 or 4 wire depending on application).
However, motors of this size which ARE 230v or dual voltage(wired for 230v) do NOT have ANY use for the NEUTRAL therefore a separate NEUTRAL wire is NOT used. A typical linecord would have 3 conductors(HOT1 HOT2 GROUND).
The power switch needs to be a two pole so as to open BOTH 'hots' when switched OFF.
I will look for the motor wiring diagram for my 115/230v Goldie and post it(assuming I DO findit)!
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:15 pm
by JPG
CAVEAT CAVEAT CAVEAT CAVEAT CAVEAT This wiring diagram is intended as an EXAMPLE; NOT to imply YOUR 10ER Motor is the SAME.
[ATTACH]3551[/ATTACH]
This is from a mid 60's GOLDIE. You can see that IF running 115v, the two winding leads are connected in Parallel. When running 230v, the windings are connected in Series. Notice BOTH poles of the power switch are used. I expect a SIMILAR method is used on the 10ER Motor.
I WOULD recommend keeping it as a 230V. I bought mine that way! NONE of the problems which abound in this forum regarding 'dimming lights', tripping breakers, only starting when adjusted for slow speed, etc. have occurred to me! Another advantage is that with a 230V branch circuit, it is unlikely to be shared with any thing else.
P.S. Since the current draw is 1/2 that when used on 115v, the wiring may be smaller(#14) and the circuit a 15A.
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:08 am
by mada1
Thanks for the diagram and info. I agree that it would be better to leave it at 230v due to the current draw, etc. The only barrier is for my son to get his landlord's permission to add a 230 circuit. Beyond that we still need to find out if he even has a 20 amp outlet available in his garage (for 115v). If not then a new circuit may be needed anyway, assuming that 15 amp would not work.
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:57 am
by JPG
mada1 wrote:Thanks for the diagram and info. I agree that it would be better to leave it at 230v due to the current draw, etc. The only barrier is for my son to get his landlord's permission to add a 230 circuit. Beyond that we still need to find out if he even has a 20 amp outlet available in his garage (for 115v). If not then a new circuit may be needed anyway, assuming that 15 amp would not work.
15A would probably work IF no other devices were on that branch. Running a dedicated 115v branch is an option(a 230v would be better). A 230v could be 15A but would require a 2 pole breaker. A 115v would only need a single pole breaker BUT should be 20A. PROS/CONS!:)
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:51 pm
by heathicus
reible wrote:Hi,
Again it is location location location.
I've been looking for one as a birthday present for my older brother, to be used as a lathe, he has all the other normal tools (non-shopsmith). So I've been watching the normal outlets and have had some friends keeping their eyes open as well. This was for any shopsmith.... but the following were the results for 10er's in my area.
One ebay one came up for $199.99 ended with no bids...
Another came up for $149.95 ended with no bids...
I'm picking one up in a few hours (ebay buy) $75.00 and I was the only one to bid.
These were over the last month, and are only a sample of ones in my geographic area (driving distance). Can't say for other areas or other times.
Ed
I wish I had that kind of luck here. Since 10/08, when I got my first 10ER, I've watched eBay for auctions within 200 miles. In that time, I've seen ONE auction. And it just happened to be at a time when I didn't need to spend the money so I didn't bid.
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:23 pm
by wlhayesmfs
The two basic motor I have found in the paper work on the er's are only 110. But to that same point I bought one from the original owner that the first thing he did was change it to a two speed 220 motor. I got both motors with it since the new original motor was only used a couple of time and still in a box. I gree with JPG on reading the motor and do what it says. Also I seen guys change plugs to only fit a dedicated plug like one of the guys stated already. I have a dedicated line for my MKV's since they seem to draw more.
Thanks
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:54 pm
by zacker
I have a chance at getting a 10ER for $400.00 is that a good deal? Im just afraid that being so old it may be more of a problem than its worth. Am I wrong? would these be worth bothering with? what I mean is, bearings, bushings and such wear out.. will this be all sloppy and off and make bad cuts?
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:28 pm
by SDSSmith
zacker wrote:I have a chance at getting a 10ER for $400.00 is that a good deal? Im just afraid that being so old it may be more of a problem than its worth. Am I wrong? would these be worth bothering with? what I mean is, bearings, bushings and such wear out.. will this be all sloppy and off and make bad cuts?
On the surface, $400 seems high for a basic 10ER. Other factors though can affect the price. The factors besides location include whether or not it has a speed changer, 10ER jigsaw, 4E jointer with headstock mount and pulleys, the elusive lower saw guard, the also elusive lower belt guard and lastly the Power Mount adapter kit (includes 'A' and 'B' brackets, power coupler and headstock pulley with integral drive hub). And if it has the Power Mount adapter kit, there could be a belt sander, bandsaw, Mark V jigsaw, Mark V jointer and so on. In this area, 10ER's can generally be purchased for around $100 or less.
Now the machine itself is built like a tank. All of the bearings can be replaced and the bearings are easy to find and fairly easy to replace. The ER is heavier than the Mark V (without the Power Pro upgrade) and with a speed changer has a wider speed range than the standard Mark V. My ER was purchased by my father in 1952 and it still hums along (quieter than a standard Mark V).
Good luck.