Shopsmith Forums

db5 wrote:Got these from Bill 2 months ago. His template is much more usable than Shopsmith's and really high quality. Contact Bill directly to get a better price and avoid eBay markup for him. His come with the Shopsmith instructions (which have no copyright so he is not in violation) along with his hard (that's HARD, not paper) template.

I wish he had made these available when I had my Mk. VII (but they wouldn't have fit).

Shopsmith documents are protected by copyright. In the US, copyright notice has been optional for a number of years.

From http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-definitions.html:

A copyright notice is an identifier placed on copies of the work to inform the world of copyright ownership. The copyright notice generally consists of the symbol or word “copyright (or copr.),” the name of the copyright owner, and the year of first publication, e.g., ©2008 John Doe. While use of a copyright notice was once required as a condition of copyright protection, it is now optional.

back on topic I have bought a few movers dollies to harvest its casters. I put some on a shipping pallet, and it makes a great storage cart. I have loaded it up with bricks and cement and the casters glide around nicely even with all the weight. next i am plañing to pick up a set to move the project car around the garage (with some plywood attached) i have a friend that has done this already so i know it will work. movers dollies are really a nice value

admin wrote:Shopsmith documents are protected by copyright. In the US, copyright notice has been optional for a number of years.

From http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-definitions.html:

A copyright notice is an identifier placed on copies of the work to inform the world of copyright ownership. The copyright notice generally consists of the symbol or word “copyright (or copr.),” the name of the copyright owner, and the year of first publication, e.g., ©2008 John Doe. While use of a copyright notice was once required as a condition of copyright protection, it is now optional.

Thanks. I was not aware that the copyright notice does not have to appear on a Shopsmith document to still make it protected by copyright. I will no longer print any Shopsmith document for anyone on the Forum or send a copy of any shopsmith document.

billmayo wrote:Thanks. I was not aware that the copyright notice does not have to appear on a Shopsmith document to still make it protected by copyright. I will no longer print any Shopsmith document for anyone on the Forum or send a copy of any shopsmith document.

Bill, I've dealt with copyright changes since the late 60's. Here's a brief summary when you are distributing something that was produced by someone else:

Mass distribution may be prohibited and might be an infringement on copyright. Distribution to a few is not. For example, everything that appears from news agencies whether printed or electronic is presumed to be copyrighted. Can you distribute that? Of course you can and all of us do it every day. It's when it becomes mass distribution; e.g., republishing something in mass from another source for profit or notoriety. Even then it is questionable as to whether the information is protected by a copyright. As an example, there was a professor (2007 I believe) who put the NFL Copyright notice on Utube and the NFL challenged and demanded it be removed. Courts decided otherwise. It was not protected. You can probably research this and get the details.

In your case, you are home free to copy and distribute to customers and potential customers anything from Shopsmith. Now what is important is that is should be related to your message. Castors with their instructions is okay. The entire Shopsmith manual may or may not be okay. Either way you won't be challenged.

Do realize Bill is quite gunshy when it comes to Shopsmith's past somewhat heavy handed(Admin's post not applicable) legal beagles chasing him.
I will let him tell the story if he wishes.

JPG40504 wrote:Do realize Bill is quite gunshy when it comes to Shopsmith's past somewhat heavy handed(Admin's post not applicable) legal beagles chasing him.
I will let him tell the story if he wishes.

You are right, JPG. I started doing 3 home shows a year in 2002 where I displayed a 520 or 510, a 500 SHORTY and a 500 MINI along with several SPTs where I offered my repair and rebuilding services, no demos. To do it properly, I wore a Shopsmith apron, hat, shirt, sometimes jacket and a belt buckle with the Shopsmith in red being shown quite noticeable except for the belt buckle. I even had a large long red Shopsmith logo with the copy write mark beside it with the words Repair and Rebuilding added at the same height mounted on the wall in the back of my booth. In 2007, I received a USPS register mail letter that I had to sign for. In short, from a Shopsmith lawyer, it stated that Shopsmith had not authorized me to use their LOGO or other company material for the selling of their used or new equipment and I had to agree to remove all signs and materials from my booth that indicated that Shopsmith would in any way be connected or associated with me. Someone had visited my booth and later visited the Shopsmith show room and commented about my booth. Of course, I signed the forms and removed all Shopsmith references from myself and the booth. I made sure everyone visiting my booth knew that I was not associated in any way with the Shopsmith company. In fact, I think this helped with the selling of my independent services. I did keep wearing the belt buckle.

I wonder how many customers they lost by not having such great and FREE advertisment at multiple home shows each year.

Many people only consider new tools (my father for one) and don't really care what the price difference. I wonder how many order forms for new shopsmiths Bill could have filled out at those home shows.

Penny wise and pound foolish IMHO.

billmayo wrote:... In fact, I think this helped with the selling of my independent services. I did keep wearing the belt buckle.

Bill
I think you are 100% correct on that. Through the years I have met a lot of people who believed rightly or wrongly that they were burnt by Shopsmith and would never do business again with the company. Yet they have Shopsmith equipment and need help, repairs or parts.

I wonder how much/many of the Shopsmith copyrights were transferred from the old company to the new company when they last restructured?

If the the copyright is held by the old company and never formally transferred and that company ceases to exist due to restructuring I don't think there is an automatic transfer.

Before I did anything if it was all the important to me I would check with a lawyer but I would not lose any sleep over it.


Before anyone jumps on me notice I said rightly or wrongly because frankly I don't know both sides of the story.

Ed in Tampa wrote: . . .
Before anyone jumps on me notice I said rightly or wrongly because frankly I don't know both sides of the story.

Can we 'jump on you' for sitting on de fence and spouting?:D

billmayo wrote: I wore a Shopsmith apron, hat, shirt, sometimes jacket and a belt buckle with the Shopsmith in red being shown quite noticeable except for the belt buckle. I even had a large long red Shopsmith logo with the copy write mark beside it with the words Repair and Rebuilding added at the same height mounted on the wall in the back of my booth.

I'm having a problem understanding this. You purchased (paid your hard earned dollars for) their products - apron, hat, shirt, jacket and belt buckle, and they tell you that you cannot wear it when you sell something. I would have hired a lawyer who worked on contingency and wanted to get rich quick. He would have shut those ****s down in a heartbeat.

These legal bullys from corporations need to be shut down.

Years ago I remember that Toys R Us (reversed R) sued everyone who used R Us. Notably was Tow's R Us in Orange, CA, a tow truck company. They intimidated almost every R US into changing their names. Tow's R Us told them to stick it and they are still in business.

Shakespeare phrased it so well, "First kill all the lawyers." Then none could run for congress or your local state assembles.