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Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:37 am
by BuckeyeDennis
rbursek wrote:I usually am the devils advocate. Just last week saw a saw stop demonstration. It is base on conductivity, a salty hot dog, wet hands. I worked at a major electrical producing utility, depend on what you did and exposure to electricity, they tested/measured your bodys conductivity!!! Everyones is different. What about when the air is dry and your skin is too as in fall and winter, and a shop full of air born dust? When do you take personal responsibility for yourself? Depending on the Saw Stop, and if it fails??? Then what, you call Huebby and Abrams?
Not to many baby boomers or the X generation buying WW equipment, just whatch CL and it is full of the older Boomers selling it off, as they retire to the condo in the South, The Xers can barely make there mortgages, with 2 kids, a Harley and no time for anything. I just bought 4 SS, 2 with jointers, one with a band saw, belt sander and 6" jointer SS cone, a free standing 6"x 52" jointer, a Delta floor TS, and a 12" band saw, for a total of 1200.00, and have about 200.00 into them and 100 of that was for bearings and belts on the Greenie. Yes, at the moment I am jointer fat!!
I dont believe the sale # of Saw Stop. You can d0 anything with #s. In the late 60s, early 70s, I believe it was Yale, previously an all male university. Head lines read, " 33% of female coeds at Yale are pregnant out of wedlock" 3 paragraphs into the article they mentioned there were only 3 female coeds registered at Yale. That makes one pregnant!!! They did not lye, but sure exploited it.
I'm curious ... did the demonstrator actually wet his hands before doing the SawStop demo?
The SawStop marketing materials that I've seen oversimply the sensor technology, quite possibly contributing to the concerns about its reliability. An article in AutomationWorld confirmed that it's actually a capacitive sensor, like the iPad touchscreen that I'm typing this on. The sensor triggers when it detects the capacitance of a human body. Skin conductivity is much less critical than it would be with resistive sensor. The hot dog in used in a demo is functioning as a capacitive stylus -- an ordinary stylus will not work with my iPad.
A digital signal processor analyzes the sensor signal to try and discriminate between body contact and wet wood. That's got to be the tricky part. It would take actual test results to convince me that wet wood won't give false triggers.
But then again, would I really care if I couldn't cut fresh pressure-treated lumber on my expensive table saw? I probably use a different saw for that job in any case.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 8:08 am
by twoblocked
I own a Sawstop. When you touch the blade (with the power on and the saw not running) a red light blinks telling you that it would have activated. You can also get it to blink by putting your hands close to both sides of the blade and not touch it. So conductivity is not needed.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 8:16 am
by twoblocked
The article says "According to SawStop, it now is the "number one" cabinet saw in North America. " I believe it. If it said just "table saw" that would include contractor type table saws like in the big box stores, but it specifically says "cabinet saw" and "North America".
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 8:43 am
by dusty
twoblocked wrote:The article says "According to SawStop, it now is the "number one" cabinet saw in North America. " I believe it. If it said just "table saw" that would include contractor type table saws like in the big box stores, but it specifically says "cabinet saw" and "North America".
I believe the hype. Sawstop has probably had a period of time when it was the "number one" seller. That is what effective advertising is suppose to do. However, Sawstop has had a helping hand by those states (CA comes to mind) where legislature has mandated that Sawstop like safety devices be incorporated in all new saws. That mandate along with the licensing restrictions has undoubtedly had some favorable impact on sales.
Like I said, I believe the hype and if I was in the market for a new table saw I would probably consider the Sawstop EXCEPT for one factor. I do not like Gass's approach to capturing the market. Because of his approach, I will never have a Sawstop.
My dream machine will remain a Unisaw; however, I might have to buy used to get the quality that I would expect.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 9:47 am
by "Wild Bad Bob"
BD if you are correct, and I have no doubt that you are,then I am wrong. I was lead to believe it based on conductivity, not resistance, but that would work too. I could see where CA would start some of those mandates, and in a commercial shop for insurance rates possible discounts.
Pressure treated wood, I helped a neighbor build a kids play set, from a store bought plan, PT lumber, at times when trying to bore holes through it, liquid was weeping out. Some of the toughest, stringiest crap, good thing only had to cross cut it to length, and bore holes for lag bolts. It took both of us all of two days and no beer was involved.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 9:58 am
by JPG
Tis capacitive AIUI. It is also able to be turned off fer that damp stuff. Nice to learn it has an indicator as well.
I doubt the blade can be replaced in two minutes. But then I have never tried so on that beast. To me the blade cost is significant. Now since I never touch the blade while moving, it would never trip it anyway!:rolleyes:
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 10:40 am
by robinson46176
While they may be selling well where are they being sold from? I have yet to see one in person, anywhere.
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:21 am
by BuckeyeDennis
robinson46176 wrote:While they may be selling well where are they being sold from? I have yet to see one in person, anywhere.
.
In the
AutomationWorld article from 2005, Gass is quoted as saying that 3/4 of SawStop sales are to commercial users. I don't have a clue as to what the ratio might be these days.
But that does make sense to me. As a hobbiest, I won't use a power saw if I'm tired or distracted, or if I have any ethanol on board. But in a commercial setting, the workers will almost certainly have to use the machinery at times when tired or distracted. And it could be difficult to tell if they are chemically impaired. So I'd be much more inclined to shell out for a SawStop if I were buying it for commercial use.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:42 am
by Ed in Tampa
As for wet wood as I understand it, if you suspect wet wood you can test it by placing it against the saw blade and a light will tell you whether it will trigger the safety or not. You then have the option of turning the safety function off and make the cut.
That said I think the SawStop technology is fantastic and I would love to have it. However like Dusty I hate the attempts by the inventor to force the product on the American Wood Worker. That has left a bitter taste in my mouth and has made me resistant in the past to ever buying one.
However the older I get the mellower I get.
Right now if I had room for a tablesaw I would buy one in a heart beat.
If I were buying one I would probably consider the Sawstop.
If Shopsmith offered a safety feature like SawStop I would purchase it immediately unless it was so outrageously priced like the Power Pro.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 1:10 pm
by rcplaneguy
Sawstop makes a really good retracting caster set for their contractor saw. I'd be very tempted to buy one of their saws if I was in the market.