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The quality of Festool products is outstanding. I picked up a T12+3 system from McFeeley's for $200 a while back (close out and the new owners of McFeeley didn't understand the Festool market place or dealer agreement). Anyway, I smile everytime I pull the trigger on the drill. I like my Makita 18v brushless hammer drill and impact drill but the Festool is in a class by itself. There is as close to zero runout using the centrotec setup with a 6" square drive bit as you cabn get in a mass produced tool. The clutch doesn't grind when you hit max torque it just shuts the motor off. I also have a TS55, CT22 vac w/boom arm, RO125 sander setup. I built a custome workbench modeled after the JackBench design but used a Festool MFT style top.

Jack

520 PowerPro, Powerstation, SS Bandsaw, SS scroll saw (teal green version), and lathe duplicator.

claimdude wrote:The quality of Festool products is outstanding. I picked up a T12+3 system from McFeeley's for $200 a while back (close out and the new owners of McFeeley didn't understand the Festool market place or dealer agreement). Anyway, I smile everytime I pull the trigger on the drill. I like my Makita 18v brushless hammer drill and impact drill but the Festool is in a class by itself. There is as close to zero runout using the centrotec setup with a 6" square drive bit as you cabn get in a mass produced tool. The clutch doesn't grind when you hit max torque it just shuts the motor off. I also have a TS55, CT22 vac w/boom arm, RO125 sander setup. I built a custome workbench modeled after the JackBench design but used a Festool MFT style top.

Jack

520 PowerPro, Powerstation, SS Bandsaw, SS scroll saw (teal green version), and lathe duplicator.

I'm green with envy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

claimdude wrote:The quality of Festool products is outstanding. I picked up a T12+3 system from McFeeley's for $200 a while back (close out and the new owners of McFeeley didn't understand the Festool market place or dealer agreement).

Knowing what you do now, would you buy it for today's normal price of $535? Or the current model T15, for $585? Sky high prices, nice if you can afford.

John,

I would definitely pony up the extra $50 for the 14.4v rather than the 10.8v (T12+3). I plan on moving to Festool drills completely which means the T15 batteries could be shared with the T18 impact. The batteries are forward but not backward compatible. In my mind the 10.8v battery doesn't seem like it would provide adequate power for a T18. This is not an educated decision just my thoughts on why I would take the T15. Plus I am of a mind that more power is always better ;-)

I bought a new Makita Gold Impact Bit Set at HD, took it home and tried it out. The bit had so much runout in my Makita drills I took it back the next day. American drills have way more spindle runout than the Festool in my experience and when you add a low quality bit adapter it just compounds the problem.

Jack

rcplaneguy wrote:Knowing what you do now, would you buy it for today's normal price of $535? Or the current model T15, for $585? Sky high prices, nice if you can afford.

claimdude wrote:John,

I would definitely pony up the extra $50 for the 14.4v rather than the 10.8v (T12+3). I plan on moving to Festool drills completely which means the T15 batteries could be shared with the T18 impact. The batteries are forward but not backward compatible. In my mind the 10.8v battery doesn't seem like it would provide adequate power for a T18. This is not an educated decision just my thoughts on why I would take the T15. Plus I am of a mind that more power is always better ]I bought a new Makita Gold Impact Bit Set[/B] at HD, took it home and tried it out. The bit had so much runout in my Makita drills I took it back the next day. American drills have way more spindle runout than the Festool in my experience and when you add a low quality bit adapter it just compounds the problem.

Jack

Are you discussing "drill bits" or "driver bits". I can't find Makita Gold Drill Drill Bits using Google. If drill bits, please give me a link.

If driver bits is the point of discussion, how are they impacted by runout.

Does Festool offer these?

My only direct Festool experience is the $40 domino joiner I scored at a yard sale last year…obviously that is a ridiculously cheap deal for a tool that is $800 new (and the one I got is complete with the Systainer box and seemed minimally used at most). It is definitely in a class by itself - the domino runs circles around biscuit joiners IMO and since they designed and patented the concept, Festool is the only proprietary manufacturer of this joining tool. Beyond that, the quality when you use the tool speaks for itself - you know a top of the line tool when you have it in your hand. All that said, would I spend $800 for one instead of the $40 I was lucky enough to get it for? Not a prayer given my financial realities, but now owning and using a Festool tool, I get what the money does buy and I would definitely contemplate a monthly set-aside to a Festool piggy bank for future tool purchases.

A carpenter friend took a trip to Europe a couple years ago and told me when he was in a few of the cities (I think he was in Spain at the time), he said he saw multiple cases of construction workers showing up in the AM to a remodel site at some ancient old house or similar building in the City and in each case, the workers had a dolly of sorts with a stack of Systainer boxes on it that they were wheeling in the door and up the multiple flights of stairs…he said once he saw that, he understood the whole Systainer deal - he (and I) had always thought the boxes were an overpriced gimmick of sorts but he said the interlocking functionality and portability in places like congested old buildings in Europe made total sense once he saw it in use.

Dusty,

I wasn't really clear but I am referring to the driver quick connect bits. You insert the style bit (phillips, squaer, etc) into the magnet holder that is inserted in the drill. The runout causes the end of the screw to make a very large circle when spinning and injects a good bit of wobble to the process of driving screws. Probably not nearly as critical for people with two hands as they can use their fingers to steady the screw until it starts in the material. I don't have a right hand so I need the bit holder and drill to run as true as possible for ease of starting screws and driving them. Make sense?

Yes, Festool makes them and when used with their centrotec (vastly improved version of the 1/4" quick connect used on American drills) runs about as true as is possible at the price point in my opinion.

Here is a link to the product I purchased at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/MAKITA-Impact-GOL ... akita+gold
Only I paid $15 for it at the big box and it isn't worth that. I would have been really hacked off if I have paid $27 at Amazon.

Jack

dusty wrote:Are you discussing "drill bits" or "driver bits". I can't find Makita Gold Drill Drill Bits using Google. If drill bits, please give me a link.

If driver bits is the point of discussion, how are they impacted by runout.

Does Festool offer these?

claimdude wrote:Dusty,

I wasn't really clear but I am referring to the driver quick connect bits. You insert the style bit (phillips, squaer, etc) into the magnet holder that is inserted in the drill. The runout causes the end of the screw to make a very large circle when spinning and injects a good bit of wobble to the process of driving screws. Probably not nearly as critical for people with two hands as they can use their fingers to steady the screw until it starts in the material. I don't have a right hand so I need the bit holder and drill to run as true as possible for ease of starting screws and driving them. Make sense?

Yes, Festool makes them and when used with their centrotec (vastly improved version of the 1/4" quick connect used on American drills) runs about as true as is possible at the price point in my opinion.

Here is a link to the product I purchased at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/MAKITA-Impact-GOLD-2-Ph/dp/B00E3FK7H4/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1400449929&sr=1-1&keywords=makita+gold
Only I paid $15 for it at the big box and it isn't worth that. I would have been really hacked off if I have paid $27 at Amazon.

Jack

Thanks for this response. I understand the runout problem now and I better understand your need for as little runout as is possible. I believe the magnetic interface is most likely the cause of that runout. I have a couple of those magnetic quick change adapters but I hardly ever use them; I change the driver bit in the drill chuck.