Shopsmith Forums

WmZiggy wrote:I am accused by my wife and child of being stuck in a past era when it comes to spending cash. And I have to admit, $20 isn't what it used to be. I can hear them now when I get upset when breakfast costs $10/person. Ed, could it be you live in a 3 figure era? As I pointed out, $1400 is the $500 bill of another era. Just go price a car today if you question this.

Perhaps????? Admittedly I'm not an inflation shopper. I don't figure how inflation should effect the price. I'm a what is it worth to me shopper. If I can find something that I recon has a fair value to cost ratio I buy it if I need it. If the value to cost ratio is too far out of balance I walk away.

I know and understand inflation but I also know about manufacturing improvements that lower costs.

Everyone talks about cars. Well a VW bug that sold in 70's for a couple thousand should sell today for about $10,500 figuring inflation.

Of course if you go to buy a VW bug you will find you will be paying $20,000 or more. Admittedly it is not the same car as the 72 bug.

However the Versa hatchback which is a far superior car to the 72 VW bug does sell for $10,500 today.

So if the 72 VW bug was built today and sold for the inflation price of $10,500 why would I buy it when I can buy a far superior car for the same price?

The problem isn't inflation, added costs, additional features, etc.

The problem is competition.

Today you can buy an equal capacity planer for 1/4 to 1/3 price. You can buy a superior capacity planer for approx $300 less and you can buy a highly rated planer (by nearly everyone) made by Dewalt for about 1/2.

Here is another inflation fact
Toyota Camry LE
Price in 1985: $10,898

Price with inflation in today's (2012) dollars: $23,347

Price new in 2012: $22,600


BMW 3-Series

Price in 1984: $20,970

Price with inflation in today's (2012) dollars: $46,704

Price new in 2012: $42,800



Jaguar XJ

Price in 1969: $6,465

Price with inflation in today's (2012) dollars: $40,764

Price new in 2012: $73,200

Porsche 911

Price in 1965: $6,370

Price with inflation in today's (2012) dollars: $46,795

Price new in 2012: $82,100

It ain't all inflation friends!!! Wake up!


I submit to you the Shopsmith planer is a Jaguar or Porche of the planers and not a the Toyota or BMW

Even Mustang are closer to reality.
Ford Mustang

Price in 1964.5: $2,368

Price with inflation in today's (2012) dollars: $17,395

Price new in 2012: $22,200

figures from http://jalopnik.com/5953080/how-inflati ... rite-cars/

Ed, it looks like you are making my case.

$650 in 1985 was a larger percentage of my gross income then today. If one hasn't kept up with inflation, for whatever reasons, then it won't be "in the budget", along with most of those cars you have listed.

In making comparisons with other planers you get into individual needs. In my first post I noted mine was 30 years old and never a problem with it (reliability & quality) , as well as my mobility needs vs a stationary tool. All I noted was that SS had a number of positives (as did the linked review) over less expensive machines, stationary and bench top. I don't think $1400 is an unreasonable price for the product SS offers when making comparisons and considering inflation.

Finally, since SS is one of the last tool makers still in the U.S. where wages, benefits, corporate taxes and other costs are higher than China's, I think it's amazing that the retail price is $1400 rather than $1880 that would be consistent with inflation since 1985.

Back when I was doing my last big buys just before and just after retirement I did look at the shopsmith planner. I didn't buy it. Yes it is nice and has some features that made it attractive. So how did I decide?

First the model that fits on a shopsmith is heavy, and looking at having to mount and un-mount was only going to get harder as I aged. The literature claimed you needed a 1-3/4 HP motor but that generation of shopsmith delivered 1-1/8??? Adding a stand and motor became the only option and they cost even more then machine mounted ones.

Second was the price of the model that made the most since for me to own. It was not only that but how this tool was going to be used in my shop. I had access to a commercial planner that was going away but it was also clear that the shopsmith was already going to be a lesser machine then what I had access to previously.

Now add into that the fact I had no room to store quantities of wood so I would not be doing as much planning in quantity or spending much time on that aspect of woodworking. This let me move down the food chain to the level of the lunch box style machines. In fact at the time this meant looking at machines in the sub $300 range. The shopsmith at the time was more like $1200.

What I found was a model that looked like it would fit my needs and had at least some of the features I had wanted. It was even less then $300. That was years ago, it has no had any issues and works even better then I expected. Also as I expected it doesn't see that much use so I have a feeling this is the last one I will ever own. If it were to fail I have no expectations of finding repair parts but I know that there are newer machines I could buy now that were not on the market back then. I do like the DeWalt line so that might be where I look. I don't think I'd even give the shopsmith a second look at this point.

Summery would be that for some people who are pretty active woodworkers with enough money to afford the shopsmith it might be a good buy. For anyone else you are going to take a long hard look at spending that much money.

Ed

WmZiggy wrote:Ed, it looks like you are making my case.

$650 in 1985 was a larger percentage of my gross income then today. If one hasn't kept up with inflation, for whatever reasons, then it won't be "in the budget", along with most of those cars you have listed.

In making comparisons with other planers you get into individual needs. In my first post I noted mine was 30 years old and never a problem with it (reliability & quality) , as well as my mobility needs vs a stationary tool. All I noted was that SS had a number of positives (as did the linked review) over less expensive machines, stationary and bench top. I don't think $1400 is an unreasonable price for the product SS offers when making comparisons and considering inflation.

Finally, since SS is one of the last tool makers still in the U.S. where wages, benefits, corporate taxes and other costs are higher than China's, I think it's amazing that the retail price is $1400 rather than $1880 that would be consistent with inflation since 1985.

I don't think you read my last post. While inflation does increase prices most products are now cheaper to make and being priced above inflation prices.

Inflation is said to cause price increase but in the case of Porsche the current price is nearly twice what inflation would do to 1965 price.

Also if you look at the VW beetle while it was probably the least expensive car in 72 at about $2000 inflation says it should now cost about $10,500 however it is priced real close to $20,000 well above normal inflation.

However the Nissan Versa which sells for $10,500 is probably the title holder for least expensive new car. Not only is it in line with inflation prices it is far superior car to the 72 VW beetle. It is getting higher ratings from the press than the VW ever got. And has a 33 mpg overall fuel average with 44 mpg highway easily obtained.

The point is with new technology a better product can be built for less.
To me the Dewalt 735 is a far superior planer that is priced nearly at 1/3 the price of the Shopsmith. Even if it only lasted 20 years you could buy 3 and save money.

Yes I know it doesn't have infinite speed control. How often do you use infinite? I use slow or fast 99.9% of the time and I will guess most others do also.

I don't know where the SS planer is made but if it is in the US I would guess it still uses other countries parts.

Ed! It's time for a chill pill.

I will gladly concede that the DW735 is the best lunchbox planer on tne market, and at a very attractive price indeed!

WmZiggy and I both think very highly of our SS planers. WmZiggy, not being a newbie opportunistic cheapskate like me, would gladly pay inflation-adjusted retail again.

As near as I can tell, NO ONE LIVING HAS EVER TRIED BOTH! Presumably because if you have either, you are a happy camper!

But I still wouldn't trade my old SS Pro Planer for a new DW735

All I was arguing is $1400 looks like more than it is when you sit down and do the inflation math. And, there are some things I really like about SS's planer.

That said (and having been said earlier) there are some tools I am willing to buy that are throw-away. Namely, Tool Freight & Harbor's 18v drill. I will never spend $150+ for a Makita, DeWalt, Ryobi or other big name cordless drill ever again. When my TFH batteries go bad and I can't get a replacement, into the recycle bin it goes. Yes, I have had the expensive Makita and Ryobi. When the batteries fail, they want $75+ for a new one. Not in my book. There I draw the line and go with cheap. I will never purchase other hand tools without a cord as enough goes in the land fills as it is. If I hear one more person tell me that battery operated cars, or what have you, are "green" they are going to get my green upchuck on their shoes.

Now I need the chill pill!

WmZiggy wrote:All I was arguing is $1400 looks like more than it is when you sit down and do the inflation math. And, there are some things I really like about SS's planer.

That said (and having been said earlier) there are some tools I am willing to buy that are throw-away. Namely, Tool Freight & Harbor's 18v drill. I will never spend $150+ for a Makita, DeWalt, Ryobi or other big name cordless drill ever again. When my TFH batteries go bad and I can't get a replacement, into the recycle bin it goes. Yes, I have had the expensive Makita and Ryobi. When the batteries fail, they want $75+ for a new one. Not in my book. There I draw the line and go with cheap. I will never purchase other hand tools without a cord as enough goes in the land fills as it is. If I hear one more person tell me that battery operated cars, or what have you, are "green" they are going to get my green upchuck on their shoes.

Now I need the chill pill!

If 'electric' is 'green' power, how come BO is so hot to trot over power plant emissions?

Now hydro and solar and wind are another thing.

"Green" is a liberal buzz word, used to be fashionable at parties, and to superficially discuss over lunch with your girl friends. Most dont know the real meaning and the consequences of most of there "green" things. Using "reclaimed materials" is another one.

Funny you mention solar JPG, our 3 electrical utilities in WI, are proposing a surcharge on solar customers for using the grid to send out there surplus back into the system, and pay them less for it then the previous rate they were paying them.