Shopsmith Forums

JPG wrote:Yes.. Yes..

Outer radius is relevant to both issues. Larger radius gives smoother cut. Larger radius makes for a more effective launcher.

Can't let this one go!!!

With due respect, I believe these answers are based on an engineering hypothesis, not experience. True?

Actual proper use of either of these methods will not reveal these differences.

My experience with the shaper has resulted in very smooth beads and curves. Never any burning.

Anxiety levels on the rise... perhaps I'll wait a bit and see how this plays out.

charlese wrote:Can't let this one go!!!

With due respect, I believe these answers are based on an engineering hypothesis, not experience. True?

Actual proper use of either of these methods will not reveal these differences.

My experience with the shaper has resulted in very smooth beads and curves. Never any burning.

There are other things that will affect that. Feed rate for one. Hardness of the workpiece.

IMHO when a router is an option, I consider that the best choice. However a router is not being considered re the first post.

It has been my experience the molder is 'better' albeit a few passes with a piece of sandpaper, and those differences tend to disappear.

Cutter sharpness more likely affects the result more.

If I understand the 'beading' operation intended, I would prefer the molder for 'surface' cutting as opposed to 'edge' cutting.

benush26 wrote:Hi Dennis,
The Board Buddies are a decent way to hold down a board, but they do have their limitations. Are they going to extend out far enough to put pressure on the board where you need it when molding? When shaping I think they are fine, but if molding, I might think about getting the attachment arm which makes them one unit rather than two pieces attached to the fence.

My questions is, why not use a router beading bit? That Triton will cut through most anything and the finish will be NICE:D . Set up a fence tall enough to handle your boards and then double (or triple stack) feather boards. You could even buy your Board Buddies (never can have enough doohickeys and thingamajigs), then mount them to hold the boards vertically against the tall fence.

Just a thought.

Be well,
Ben

Sounds interesting, but I couldn't find any info regarding an attachment arm for Board Buddies. Can you point me in the right direction? I was thinking that the Board Buddies might play nicely with the 520 fence T-slots and T-nuts.

So why was I planning to use the molder head instead of a router bit to do the beading? Because I have one, and wanted to play with it! I even have the right set of knives.

After you brought it up, it did occur to me that a molder can make a bead in the middle of a wide board, but a router bit can only do the bead at the edge of the board. So if I have any double-wide boards, I could just add a center bead, instead of ripping it into single-wide boards and cutting T&G to rejoin them.

With 1000 feet to do, I'll probably try both tools, and then use whichever is most efficient.

If a larger radius cutter makes a smoother cut, how come a router doe such a good job? Cause they are sharper (carbide) and run faster?

rcplaneguy wrote:If a larger radius cutter makes a smoother cut, how come a router doe such a good job? Cause they are sharper (carbide) and run faster?

Feed rate and cutter rate also affect 'smoothness'.

A router is very fast relative to the typical feed rate. The router is nibbling.

The molder and shaper are much slower cutters.

The molder takes a longer cut than the shaper.

Slow feed will always produce a smoother surface.

BuckeyeDennis wrote:Sounds interesting, but I couldn't find any info regarding an attachment arm for Board Buddies. Can you point me in the right direction? I was thinking that the Board Buddies might play nicely with the 520 fence T-slots and T-nuts.

A source I could find was Amazon Go figure!?

http://www.amazon.com/Woodstock-W1108-2 ... rd+buddies

They are basically T-track configured to accept the BB. What I appreciate is the ability to have one piece to attach (though I have not used it on the M7 /520 fence). I'd have to dig to find them. The wheels wore rapidly when I used them with too much pressure and the replacement wheels were nearly as much as I paid for the set up when I bought it! Once they wear (especially unevenly), they allow slipping. After a while I just used feather boards attached to a tall fence board.

Sorry about the delay getting back to you, but I'm still not able to check here with any regularity. By early November, life should be back to nearly boringly normal!

Before you invest in the BB system you might see if any place near you has some in a working demo. For me, if the stock was 1x4 or smaller they were fine, but larger than that would cause reliability problems. Not enough tension to hold them down without making it difficult to push stock through. But then again, that could just be me!:(

Be well,
Ben

rcplaneguy wrote:If a larger radius cutter makes a smoother cut, how come a router doe such a good job? Cause they are sharper (carbide) and run faster?

For me...
I can set up a jig ir fence on a router table to make a thin pass with a router which allows me a smoother final cut. I would imagine if you could set up something with either a shaper or molder where the final pass was 1/64 or less, the result would be a smooth finish.
I will leave the larger versus smaller radius cutter / speed differential to the engineers. I find much of a final result obtained to be similar to welding in that I hear when it's doing better. Of course I could just be looney tunes and hear things that aren't there, but I believe I hear the differences! And NO JPG they aren't voices!!

Be well,
Ben

I used a molder head and different knives to make a few hundred feet of door and window trim along with baseboard and other trim when adding 1000 sq ft addition to our home. This to me was the most dangerous type of woodworking I have done. I use many finger boards along with wheels and spring strips to hold the wood. I used long push sticks. This made really big piles of shavings several times. I wanted to see if I could accomplish this type of woodworking with what I had available but would not try it again.

The Shopsmith Molding catalog page (from an earlier post) has a link to the SS115 Molder Classroom session. About 4 minutes into the video, Nick gives his viewpoint on Router .vs. Shaper .vs. Molder mill-marks. There's also a 'visual aid' in the chalkboard window for reference:
[ATTACH]26625[/ATTACH]
One can minimize the effects of mill-marks by using a slower rate of feed. But, with too slow of a rate of feed, you get burn marks.
The only way to eliminate mill marks is to sand or scrape (or use a molding plane to start with).

As far as kick-back goes, the larger the diameter of the cutter, the longer the lever for throwing the work-piece. The longer the lever, the more force developed. BUT, the longest lever in this scenario has the slowest speed. The smaller diameter cutters make up for some of the lever length by increased speed. While we could spend hours discussing which is worse, the bottom line is all three of these methods can result in kick-back, so be careful with all of them.