Shopsmith Forums

Gene Howe wrote:Cue the theme from X files.

Sorry Gene, I don't watch that stuff. I don't know how to CUE the program nor do I want to watch it. I said in my original post I don't want fiction. I want someone who knows this is an issue or not and what it is.

jsburger wrote:

Gene Howe wrote:Cue the theme from X files.

Sorry Gene, I don't watch that stuff. I don't know how to CUE the program nor do I want to watch it. I said in my original post I don't want fiction. I want someone who knows this is an issue or not and what it is.

I thought I just did .....

A matter of timing methinks. JSB posted before reading your initial post?

jsburger wrote:I want someone who knows this is an issue or not and what it is.

John you served in the military in the area IIRC. Do you have a theory about what may be happening?

There is nothing theoretical about it LOL. Military and commercial system designers are aware of the potential overlaps among frequencies—and in particular the co-interference between military/civilian radars and wireless LANs.

The IEEE 802.11a wireless local area network standard allocates the frequencies in the range of 5150 to 5725 MHz for wireless communication between computers and WLAN hubs to facilitate localized networking. Unfortunately, these frequencies overlap the C band military/civilian radar frequency range of 5250 to 5925 MHz. This can lead to degraded performance in the WLAN network and also possibly interfere with, and disrupt the radar’s ability to detect weak echoes thereby causing dangerous situations in air traffic control in both military and civilian radar.

Many Wireless radio manuf. companies (particularly Ubiquity, which I am sure your ISP uses) have their software written so when the civilian or government radar is detected, the radios either reset, or change frequency. When the freq change takes place there will be a latency time between the network loss and reconnect, particularly with the CPE radios of "searching" for a mothership access point and will lose connection to the Internet for a period of time. It is why the tech (and supervisor) can't "see" your CPE as it is still blind and looking to reconnect.

JMO

rjent wrote:There is nothing theoretical about it LOL. Military and commercial system designers are aware of the potential overlaps among frequencies—and in particular the co-interference between military/civilian radars and wireless LANs.

The IEEE 802.11a wireless local area network standard allocates the frequencies in the range of 5150 to 5725 MHz for wireless communication between computers and WLAN hubs to facilitate localized networking. Unfortunately, these frequencies overlap the C band military radar frequency range of 5250 to 5925 MHz. This can lead to degraded performance in the WLAN network and also possibly interfere with, and disrupt the radar’s ability to detect weak echoes thereby causing dangerous situations in air traffic control in both military and civilian radar.

Many Wireless radio manuf. companies (particularly Ubiquity, which I am sure your ISP uses) have their software written so when the civilian or government radar is detected, the radios either reset, or change frequency. When the freq change takes place there will be a latency time between the network loss and reconnect, particularly with the CPE radios of "searching" for a mothership access point and will lose connection to the Internet for a period of time. It is why the tech (and supervisor) can't "see" your CPE as it is still blind and looking to reconnect.

JMO

OK that explains it then. The radar is the primary allocation and the wireless LAN is secondary and may not cause harmful interference to the primary user.

Seems like the FCC should take a look at this and shift some frequencies given the increased use of wireless internet connections.

It is just interesting that in all the years I have been using this provider that this is the first time this has happened.

Thanks for the explanation. It makes perfect sense.

jsburger wrote:

rjent wrote:There is nothing theoretical about it LOL. Military and commercial system designers are aware of the potential overlaps among frequencies—and in particular the co-interference between military/civilian radars and wireless LANs.

The IEEE 802.11a wireless local area network standard allocates the frequencies in the range of 5150 to 5725 MHz for wireless communication between computers and WLAN hubs to facilitate localized networking. Unfortunately, these frequencies overlap the C band military radar frequency range of 5250 to 5925 MHz. This can lead to degraded performance in the WLAN network and also possibly interfere with, and disrupt the radar’s ability to detect weak echoes thereby causing dangerous situations in air traffic control in both military and civilian radar.

Many Wireless radio manuf. companies (particularly Ubiquity, which I am sure your ISP uses) have their software written so when the civilian or government radar is detected, the radios either reset, or change frequency. When the freq change takes place there will be a latency time between the network loss and reconnect, particularly with the CPE radios of "searching" for a mothership access point and will lose connection to the Internet for a period of time. It is why the tech (and supervisor) can't "see" your CPE as it is still blind and looking to reconnect.

JMO

OK that explains it then. The radar is the primary allocation and the wireless LAN is secondary and may not cause harmful interference to the primary user.

Seems like the FCC should take a look at this and shift some frequencies given the increased use of wireless internet connections.

It is just interesting that in all the years I have been using this provider that this is the first time this has happened.

Thanks for the explanation. It makes perfect sense.

The problem is, the freqs were allocated to WISP's/wireless communication only, then in typical government fashion (I am not a fan LOL) they started "grabbing" more freqs and consequently started stepping on us. Typically, they give an "argument" period, and then do what they want anyway, you had two careers with the feds, it is great for gov, but hard for the real world.

I think it will just get worse, not better.

FWIW

Edit: you might want to check to see in there has been any new radar added to your area. If an WISP wants to move into an undeveloped area, they have to make sure they don't step on anyone with the radio xmissions, not so with gov.

It might be that a radar installation (even temporary) has been added recently

And an 'interesting' use of 'adjacent' channels( which overlap ).

From an NTSB safety prospective, it seems that if the radar onboard an aircraft could be interfered with by the wireless carrier's inability to auto-detect and shut down broadcasting in that spectrum, I am not too sure I want to rely on an ISP to protect my life while I am in an aircraft, flying through their service area.

This is a screw-up in banding that FCC needs to jump on before the NTSB has a ruling that states a crash was due to the ISP's equipment not detecting contention at 3:00 AM as a plane was flying over, and failed to shut down.

If I am a resident of any area where wireless services exist (whether I am their customer or not), the fact that internet service dropped off the air, is a magnitude different than a plane dropping out of the air, potentially on me, or my neighbors, because it didn't.

Just think, flying with the redundancies and resiliencies inherent in all areas ISP's technology across the nation ....