Shopsmith Forums

Sazerac81 wrote:

robinson46176 wrote:Good luck...
I guess I won't be involved in this thread.
I'm sorry but I would have to just move, I will NEVER live like that.


.

Haha, we must do with what we have. We can't all be farmers on acres and acres of land.

And yes, the HOA can be a pain in the rear, but they keep the neighborhood consistent.

I have thought that eventually, it might be nice to live on acres of land, but for my current life situation with young kids, having neighbors close by with kids of their own that can easily play and interact with them far outstrips my wants/needs for un-encumbered workspace. After all, this is merely a hobby for me, my real work is a practicing anesthesiologist and interventional pain management physician.

Cheers,
John

Having said my piece...
We have started looking at mini-split heat pump / AC units to add to the house (and by extension the woodshop) and so far I can't find any downside for our use even in our colder climate. We won't be heating with it at 25 below zero... But I have that covered. Today it is 50 degrees and outside temps from around 30 degrees and up is the range I want to cover at a low cost and low labor aspect. I'm getting old and having a hard time staying excited about cutting all of that wood. Right now, today, I am using resistance electric instead of the wood furnace but the heat pump would be cheaper plus all of the windows in the east wing are the wrong kind and in the wrong place for AC at this end. The mini-split just seems right. We are fine with the setup we have now but we are planning on the possibility that we might get older... and making "adjustments" while we can still afford it and I am still able to do the work.
I would think from what I have read so far that one would probably serve your needs well and at a reasonable operating cost.

BTW, I have this pain just about "here"...



.

Just last week had a conversation with the HVAC company who installed my home heating and ac heat pump about installing a garage split system. One big warning was the need for improved air filter on the interior portion. I was looking at Mitsubishi units and as I understand it, they have special filters which will accommodate wood working environments, so appears this isn't their first rodeo when it comes to woodworkers wanting to turn their garages into workshops
With the higher cost of electricity in my area, he tried to get me to go with a conventional heating system using natural gas, then a smaller heat pump for the cooling side. Significantly more money to buy and I think that was part of their pitch. More than $6K .
When they found I was not going to go that route he said use a P-Tech (aka motel system), however they are grossly inefficienct, and though I would not have a HOA to contend with I still would not go that way.
FINALLY, they said a spilt system would work fine as long as I made certain the interior never got below -14 F. Probably not anything you will EVER have to worry about however here in Montana there are too many winter days where it never gets warmer than -30F
Why they didn't want me to install a split system... No great labor profit for them. Two hours labor total time!!! That particular company wants nothing to do with such quick installs and after a bit of discussion said I could easily do it myself. The only problem with me doing it is that Mitsubishi won't honor the warranty unless installed by a professional.
So, after that long winded and probably useless piece of background is that the most you should have to pay is for a half day (that's the minimum for most HVAC contractors on any install) of one person's labor. Most split systems come pre-filled so you don't need anything but a few hand tools. Labor should be less than $360.
If you buy the system yourself and are willing to wait a while (weeks) to get it installed, make a deal with an HVAC company to come by and hook it up on a slow day. How much you could save that way?? . As I understand it, you just need an authorized signature to get the warranty. If you have any friends in the industry, maybe you can trade them a BBQ dinner and a few drinks for an hours help and their name on the sheet.

Hope that helps.

Be well,
Ben

Sazerac81 wrote:Do you have a general roundabout number on how much it would cost for the actual labor charges for the install of a single duct mini-split unit?

No, but what benush26 had to say I found very enlightening and reasonable. Another good guideline for A/C sizing is to look at window type units and see for what size room area they are recommended. And ERLover's suggestion of hanging plastic with overlaps every so often for access thru the curtain would be much less expensive than a true strip curtain. There is some heavy duty clear reinforced flame retardant plastic sheeting available that is about twice as thick as typical (10 mil vs 4 or 6 mil), and with the reinforcing it is almost impossible to tear. Here's one I found:
http://www.discountvisqueen.com/catalog ... 84e05oc354
I know you said no partition for now, but if the door into the house is located on the shop side of the garage, there may be a lot of traffic thru your shop area to get to the car and a few stategically placed slits could still make access easy from one side to the other. Except at slit openings, the bottom of the plastic could be weighted with 2 x 4s to help keep it from becoming too much of a sail. Without some kind of separation between the two halves, a lot of your cooling is going to be lost. Odds are the exterior walls of the garage are not insulated at all.

I have a similar situation with the exception of a double wide garage door. Opening and closing it pretty much tanks the AC for an hour, Can you move the car out in the morning and bring it in, in the evening? If you can you need a 12,000 BTU unit. If you have to open and close the door multiple times you need a much bigger unit. Also make sure you seal around the garage door. I used trim with vinyl flaps the press against the door. The door is also insulated with 2-3 inch foam. Door faces West so it takes direct sun after about 3 until the sun sets.

My garage is connected to house also and dust is a problem I try to maintain negative air pressure between the garage and the house, exhaust fan blowing out of garage. Sucks out some cool air but is better than an angry wife.

Wanted a few opinions and thought I would share a few pics of the garage shop to better visualize the space I am trying to turn into hopefully a comfortable year round workshop.

A view of the inside, the left side is my side but I have temporarily commandeered the right side for now. I have begun installing the foam insert insulation (it's the home depot version of the matador brand foam insulation). Pretty easy to install. The issue is how to better insulate those windows without covering them. I plan on installing foam around them with just a center cutout of the foam but need to remove the windows to squeeze the foam in



A view from the outside.



The most likely area where the head of the mini-split will be installed. It will probably sit above where the tankless water heater is situated and it is on the side where she parks her car. Pardon the mess as I am in the process of re-organization. This is the outside wall of the garage.



It would be nice to try to partition off with the plastic drapes, but it's tough because the only realistic place for the mini-split is on the outside wall.

Also, I was thinking of purchasing some window inserts for the garage windows from http://www.windowinserts.com. It should boost insulation and the vinyl panes seem pretty darn indestructible! A bit pricey, but I like that they can be easily removed if needed so it's not a permanent change that occurs to allow for better insulation of the window panes. I could just cover them with reflective insulation material, but I really do like the natural light in there when it is available.

Any of you have any experiences with the insulating window inserts from http://www.windowinserts.com?

Cheers,
John

A final small pano of MY side.

With the height I would build a 4 ft wide loft out from the back wall at about the height of the door into the house I would also build a loft using the whole area over the garage doors. That would give you a ton of storage space.

Help me understand why can't you simply leave your wife's car out when you have the heating/cooling on?

I can assure you opening the door even once while cooling/heating will cost you far more energy than the garage door windows.

Add to that a hot car engine when she comes home and pulls inside and you have a huge furnace that you are trying to cool also.

Ed in Tampa wrote:Help me understand why can't you simply leave your wife's car out when you have the heating/cooling on?

Because it's the WIFE'S car.

Without the aesthetics issues of the HOA, what do they say about noise abatement issues? Insulated Garage Door or not, it makes a resonant speaker to the neighborhood.

My thoughts would be to build a modular, bolt together enclosure that is freestanding on the floor your half is on.

Leave a corridor for house access from the other side for your wife. Put some useful storage (white pegboard) on the outside of it. Even replicating that on the wall that faces garage door, allowing it to hold rakes, garden tools etc.

Equip the area above for storage.

Install a self contained air system of your choosing. Slightly raise the garage door when running it to vent outside.

Nothing is permanent, and your enclosure can be disassembled and moved should you relocate, not effecting a remodel.

You give up some space, but space you have is yours alone, and you can secure it to protect inside from inquiring teenagers.

It is not a think outside the box approach. It is a think inside the box approach.

We did something similar in the corner of a warehouse in Dallas years ago that worked well, and was later relocated to a new warehouse.

Everett

Got this all worked out...
Install the mini-split heat pump / AC.
Switch to all hand tools...

All problems solved.
Very little dust.
Very little noise.
Much smaller space requirements.
Very small power needs.


Errr, uhh... Maybe not.


.

beeg wrote:

Ed in Tampa wrote:Help me understand why can't you simply leave your wife's car out when you have the heating/cooling on?

Because it's the WIFE'S car.

So very true!