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Re: I think something is binding and causing the breaker to pop
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:02 am
by everettdavis
Read about motor start relay or centrifugal motor start switches in other threads depending on what you have.
Contact corrosion there or debris in them (especially a centrifugal switch) can be source of the burning smell and increase the load on power-up affecting the motor start windings.
Less common but possible, a motor start capacitor can be an issue. Visually inspect it, and read how to test it with an ohmmeter if you are unfamiliar with the process.
Do let us know what you find.
Everett
Re: I think something is binding and causing the breaker to pop
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:35 am
by JPG
Coming late to the party - The clank sound is 'typical' when rocking back and forth. The other sound(s) I cannot tell if it is belt squeak or rubbing, or both(likely). If mostly belt squeak, they may be too tight.
As for the poly-v belt position on the upper pulley, there are differing opinions. The 'nominal' position is the third groove back from the quill end of the main shaft. That leaves TWO grooves visible on that end. My opinion is that the poly-v belt needs to run true(straight line to the control sheave pulley hub). The position of the control pulley hub is affected by the eccentric sleeve etc..
Hopefully the smoke was from residual saw dust.
Good advice from Everett!
Re: I think something is binding and causing the breaker to pop
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:47 am
by cmn135
Thanks all. Great tips. It may be a week or two till I can get back to it but once I do I will report back.
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Re: I think something is binding and causing the breaker to pop
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:44 am
by EliWalton
reible wrote:The sound is very mechanical like the sheave rubbing on the the motor bracket. That should not effect the start up but should be corrected.
Ed
Did you follow-up on the cause and remedy for that scraping noise? That did not sound normal from my experience... Like so much troubleshooting, fix the known issues first and the unknown often go away...
Just sayin' 73 Ely
Re: I think something is binding and causing the breaker to pop
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:43 pm
by JPG
EliWalton wrote:reible wrote:The sound is very mechanical like the sheave rubbing on the the motor bracket. That should not effect the start up but should be corrected.
Ed
Did you follow-up on the cause and remedy for that scraping noise? That did not sound normal from my experience... Like so much troubleshooting, fix the known issues first and the unknown often go away...
Just sayin' 73 Ely
I am sure we will find out 'in a week or two'.
Re: I think something is binding and causing the breaker to pop
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:29 am
by cmn135
Yeah I didn't get a chance to tinker yet. I can tell you that the flat tab terminals on the back of the on/off switch have some wiggle to them. I've read these can come loose over time. I'm guessing that needs replacing and there isn't a way to tighten them. It was on my to do list anyways. As to the rest of the trouble shooting as mentioned I hope to get to it soon and have no plans to run the machine until I check everything.
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Re: I think something is binding and causing the breaker to pop
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:31 pm
by cmn135
Ok so that couple weeks to get to this turned into 6 months i guess. It was a crazy finish to 2017.
Anyways i finally got around to the updates and i wanted to thank everyone for the suggestion. I removed the base, did a full cleaning. I installed a new switch and a new wire and plug and changed the wire ends to the ones with the dust jackets on them. Re-oiled everything and put her back together and now she purrs and also no longer pops breakers. I tried turning it on in high range once just to test and she fired right back up.
Thanks again for the help everyone. Now hoping to make some sawdust. I have quite a few projects to get to before spring.
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Re: I think something is binding and causing the breaker to pop
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:56 am
by badtheba
cmn135 wrote:Hello everyone,
Recently bought a working '84 mark v. Decided to do some preventative maintenance. Waxed the tubes, oiled the sheaves and vacuumed the dust out inside the case. That is all I did. To do this I ran it up to full speed as instructed to expose the bottom sheave oil hole. Shut it off,
did my oil with 3 in 1 and vacuumed.
When I went to turn it back on it hesitated and popped the breaker. I took the casing back apart and tried one or two more times and same result. It seems to spin ok by hand but I'm new so I'm not sure how much resistance there should be. The belts seem properly tensioned. I attributed it to being on a 15 amp breaker with some lights on and trying to start it on high so I took a break for a few weeks till I could run a new dedicated line.
Flash forward to today. I have a new 20 amp breaker run with nothing else on it. This time it hesitates longer, then finally starts to spin and then pops again. This time a very faint burning smell. Hopefully didn't cook the motor.
Then I spin it by hand back and forth a little and though it moves ok it 'sounds' like the belt is rubbing and I'm not sure if this is normal. I took a brief video and tried to rotate it and show the different sheave and belt positions. Any ideas? Should it make this sound?
I can't seem to figure out how to embed the youtube video properly, my apologies.
https://youtu.be/RbqxBPnK4ME
[youtube]
https://youtu.be/RbqxBPnK4ME[/youtube]
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Not owning any SS newer than a 1951 ER, I have to ask, is the regular old 3 in 1 oil really a good choice for the internals? I remember my mom used to use it exclusively for sewing machines. Any time she put a machine away for a few months, it wouldn't run right after getting it out because the oil had turned into a yellowish brown sludge that had to be cleaned off before it could be reapplied. I gave her a drip bottle of Boeshield T-9 and she never had to deal with that again.
After I started working at a bike shop, and people came in with 3 in 1 oil all over their chain and it had attracted all sorts of dust that had turned crusty, everyone with any amount of experience at the shop said that 3 in 1 original was vegetable based, and as such would gum up and varnish. I have not bought the stuff since.
Now I do use the 3 in 1 electric motor oil for various things, but that's just motor oil.
I'm just curious as to what the best oil for internals are, and if anyone has issues with 3 in 1 "gunking up".
Re: I think something is binding and causing the breaker to pop
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:16 am
by JPG
Had not heard that re 3 in 1.
'Electric motor' oil and 'motor' oil are not necessarily the same thing, nor necessarily different.
Motor(gasoline) oils typically have additives for that purpose.
#10 'machine' oil does not. Turbine oil does not. Electric motor/turbine oil does not.
Now the belt squeak is I believe 'normal' as is the backlash noise.
A video of it trying to startup may be more revealing. Just do not try/repeat more than once!
Your video showed it rocking back and forth. What does it feel/sound like when allowing the pulleys to fully rotate?
Re: I think something is binding and causing the breaker to pop
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:40 am
by badtheba
JPG wrote:Had not heard that re 3 in 1.
All I can tell you is 1) My mom's sewing machines were in worse shape from sitting for a few months of non use after using 3 in 1 where it would gum up fine gears and sliding parts; and 2) it was looked down on with severe disdain at the bike shop.
As to its actual formula I have no idea.