Shopsmith Forums

So now I'm stuck for the moment with this new issue. The nut is jammed against the end piece and I can't get it to budge. It is not corroded so at least I have that going for me.
Time to take some time off this anyway. We got to about 94 and high humidity so summer is hanging on for a while yet here in the Chicago area.

I wonder how the previous owner used the table this way???

Ed

reible wrote:Well the plot thickens as they say. Mine is number 94506. My thought is now that this was a change made towards the end of production for one or many reasons. It might have been cheaper to just do away with having to tap the holes, just a few minutes here and there makes up some savings and it is more then likely cheaper to buy the bolts and the added time to have it assembled that way rather then the time it took to tap the holes.

Anyway that is also a possibility.

Ed

This is very interesting. Ed, your holes are clearly not in the center of the boss. RPD's picture looks like his are. The overhang of his fence bar appears to be the same as one of my aux tables with tapped holes. My other tables have the same overhang. Also as you can see the tapped holes are in the center of the boss.

It is hard to believe that Magna thought three through holes with the added cost of the nuts were going to save the company enough money over three tapped holes to make the change. I don't think they made any other changes at the end of production.

My auxiliary table is also tapped. And the holes much better centered then the main table.

The reason I'm think now that this is a factory change is the square nuts are just like I have. Now if someone did this as a diy fix it would be surprising that they had the same square nuts to use.

It would be interesting to know who else here has a number up that high and if they have the same situation.

When I worked as an engineer I would design things for design intent, then the factory engineers would decide what factory would be building the item and sometimes that was an outside company sometime in house. Each factory had there own thoughts and machines they owned and same with outside factories.

So after I submitted a design it when through another process to make it factory friendly. Sometimes nothing changed(then) and other times they would want something done differently. Like sometime a factory purchased 10-32 x 5/8" screws by the millions and almost no 10-32 x 1/2" screws so they would ask if they could use the longer screws rather then ordering and stocking the ones I ask for. Most time that was not a problem.

Still other times they would move manufacturing to another factory where it might be a whole other ball game. There the new engineers would maybe do another work flow analyst and want self tapping screws rather then tapping.... that was one of the big changes I saw over the years, to expensive to drill and tap when they could just drill and use self tapping screws.

Of course we had to keep track off all the changes and know how to find the differences in case things had to be worked on or replaced, ah change control.

So things like the holes being drilled over sized and using nuts would not surprise me at all.

Of course it could be this was just a bad casting and they didn't want to waste it.... or this could have been a batch of tests to see how well this change would work out. What ever it was we will never know but now with two of them for this higher number range has to make you wonder.

Ed

reible wrote:My auxiliary table is also tapped. And the holes much better centered then the main table.

The reason I'm think now that this is a factory change is the square nuts are just like I have. Now if someone did this as a diy fix it would be surprising that they had the same square nuts to use.

It would be interesting to know who else here has a number up that high and if they have the same situation.

When I worked as an engineer I would design things for design intent, then the factory engineers would decide what factory would be building the item and sometimes that was an outside company sometime in house. Each factory had there own thoughts and machines they owned and same with outside factories.

So after I submitted a design it when through another process to make it factory friendly. Sometimes nothing changed(then) and other times they would want something done differently. Like sometime a factory purchased 10-32 x 5/8" screws by the millions and almost no 10-32 x 1/2" screws so they would ask if they could use the longer screws rather then ordering and stocking the ones I ask for. Most time that was not a problem.

Still other times they would move manufacturing to another factory where it might be a whole other ball game. There the new engineers would maybe do another work flow analyst and want self tapping screws rather then tapping.... that was one of the big changes I saw over the years, to expensive to drill and tap when they could just drill and use self tapping screws.

Of course we had to keep track off all the changes and know how to find the differences in case things had to be worked on or replaced, ah change control.

So things like the holes being drilled over sized and using nuts would not surprise me at all.

Of course it could be this was just a bad casting and they didn't want to waste it.... or this could have been a batch of tests to see how well this change would work out. What ever it was we will never know but now with two of them for this higher number range has to make you wonder.

Ed

I certainly agree with all that you have said. However, I don't believe that Magna out sourced much back in the late 40's and early 50's. Articles available indicate they did everything in house except for probably the casting. Also, I think square nuts were much more common back then than they are today.

It also makes no sense why your holes are so off center. Maybe RPD will remove his fence bar and show how his holes are centered.

Any way it is an interesting discovery which we will probably never know why.

I will email Skip tomorrow and see what he knows.

FWIW, hex nuts were NOT common back then in that size/thread.(considered stove bolts).

reible wrote:So now I'm stuck for the moment with this new issue. The nut is jammed against the end piece and I can't get it to budge. It is not corroded so at least I have that going for me.

20170920_161047_resizeda.jpg

Time to take some time off this anyway. We got to about 94 and high humidity so summer is hanging on for a while yet here in the Chicago area.

I wonder how the previous owner used the table this way???

Ed

Jam nuts on the course thread end.

Well I guess my point wasn't very understandable. Lets just skip it for now as we have no real idea why we now have two machines with "close" serial numbers that are done that way. I'd hate to assign that to chance.

BTW I did manage to get the nut loose, good old wood jaws in my bench vise and a good tap on the wrench did it.

Now the next odd thing is that when I tighten the bolts to trunnion parts the the tilting becomes very stiff. My guess is that something is slightly out of alignment as in bent. With the bolts loose it swings easy, tighten them and it stiffens up. My brothers was not like that so something is different here.

It is no like it is rubbing, it is more like binding and more to one side then the other and even without it be tighten the clamp at all.

I have not tested the table for flatness so it might become clearer if it is bowed. The saw insert has been welded back together, so my guess is that at some point the headstock dropped into the table with some force. May have some lasting damage from that??

Ed

One step forward one backwards. Since I had painted these parts a couple of years ago there were some storage damage so I pulled the table back apart and shot some fresh paint as need on the tie bar. We were out most of the day so I just went out to bring the freshly painted part back in for the night.

A flock or what ever they call them of tiny black bugs decided it would be good idea to land in the fresh paint.... there had to be 50 or 60 of them stuck in the paint, some just by their legs, some bodies and wings and well all manor of ways of killing them selves.

I took a fine point tweeters to get off what I could then repainted the part and put it in the shed for the night. I hope they don't seek it out in there.

So reassembly is not happening tonight.

Ed

JPG wrote:FWIW, hex nuts were NOT common back then in that size/thread.(considered stove bolts).

I can remember going to the hardware store, and getting
stove bolts, with Dad, when I was a kid.

Wonder if they are still around?

steve

Here is a picture of my table insert. If you look near the arrows you can see where it had broken, actually looks like it was in two pieces. More weld shows up on the bottom so it still looks pretty good on the top.
I was going to use it to make a pattern for more inserts but the fit is really poor. Maybe it just this one but look at the corners. Typical?

However this is it for the summer projects and I now have to move on to fall projects. The 10ER is going into storage again. I really hoped to get it done but it is never easy to find the time for everything you need to do and want to do.

Ed