Shopsmith Forums

chapmanruss wrote:Did you know that without the Speed Changer you are not limited to only 3 speeds but can have 7? See attached chart.
Table of Speeds Model 10s.pdf

Not SS sourced I assume. For correct running, the pulleys need to be shifted so the belts are square to the shaft. Skewed belts is bad.

JPG wrote:

rpd wrote: . . .

I have two speed changers and they are both 0-5, I believe I read in an old post that the speed range(s) were the same on both versions.

Until one adjusts above 5. With the older one that is possible.

FWIW, Belt adjustments(motor height etc.) will alter the resultant speeds.

One reason the scale is adjustable to account for belt length.

The the actual speed range is constrained by the distance between the two fixed sheaves, and they should be set so that when one belt is almost, but not quite touching , the sleeve on the floating sheave the other side of the floating sheave is touching the fixed sheave. The older style floating sheave without the sleeve would have allowed only slightly more travel. I suspect that would have given a bit wider range, (0 a bit slower and top speed a bit faster) but I am skeptical that 8 was attainable. It would be good if someone with a 0-8 model would comment on actual experience.

http://www.mkctools.com/speed%20changer%20setup.htm

This has come up before, but there wasn't a definitive resolution. https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/view ... 40#p120140

JPG wrote about the 3 vs. 7 fixed speeds

Not SS sourced I assume. For correct running, the pulleys need to be shifted so the belts are square to the shaft. Skewed belts is bad.

It is not SS sourced. I made the PDF and it is noted that you need to move one of the pulleys at a time when changing the pulley match-ups to keep them aligned. It is one of the documents I include when I sell a restored Model 10E or 10ER Shopsmith. I had not seen this anywhere but the idea came to me one day. I tried it out on my 10ER and it worked fine. At a later time I was talking to Skip Campbell and he knew of doing it also. I don't recall the exact conversation with Skip.

chapmanruss wrote:Did you know that without the Speed Changer you are not limited to only 3 speeds but can have 7? See attached chart.
Table of Speeds Model 10s.pdf

Has anyone tried using the Speed Changer in a middle range? e.g. using the 2" motor pulley and the 3" headstock pulley - this would provide an estimated range of 600 to 2,200 RPM. Has this already been proven as a "bad idea"?

-Steve

curmudgeon wrote:

chapmanruss wrote:Did you know that without the Speed Changer you are not limited to only 3 speeds but can have 7? See attached chart.
Table of Speeds Model 10s.pdf

Has anyone tried using the Speed Changer in a middle range? e.g. using the 2" motor pulley and the 3" headstock pulley - this would provide an estimated range of 600 to 2,200 RPM. Has this already been proven as a "bad idea"?

-Steve

You already have that range with the stock setup.

Steve,

You asked

Has anyone tried using the Speed Changer in a middle range? e.g. using the 2" motor pulley and the 3" headstock pulley - this would provide an estimated range of 600 to 2,200 RPM. Has this already been proven as a "bad idea"?

I have not tried it nor have really seen a need to. Since I also have my Mark tools I don't often use the Model 10's unless I want multiple setups without changeovers. The one possible problem I see with your idea would be moving the Headstock Pulley enough to us the 3" instead of the 4" without turning the Pulleys around. I'm not sure there is enough clearance to slide the Headstock Pulley toward the Headstock without it rubbing. The Speed Changer position in relationship to the Headstock is always the same which means the Pulley Assembly on it remains in the same position. The Headstock Pulley has limited movement on the Drive Shaft. The motor has more movement available depending on the shaft length and positioning the Motor on the mount.

The only real gain I see with your idea would be to fill the gap between the top end of the low RPM range and the bottom end of the high RPM range. That would be 1600 RPM's to 1850 RPM's. Very few operations even go into that missing speed range as per the Model 10 Speed Chart.

One of the advantages of the Speed Changer is having to make limited belt changes from low to high or back to low and no Pulley position moves to have a wide range of speeds. With it Model 10's have a wider range of speeds than the Mark 5/V conventional Headstock.

Let us not overlook the different bore sizes of the motor and drive pulley.

chapmanruss wrote:The one possible problem I see with your idea would be moving the Headstock Pulley enough to us the 3" instead of the 4" without turning the Pulleys around. I'm not sure there is enough clearance to slide the Headstock Pulley toward the Headstock without it rubbing. The Speed Changer position in relationship to the Headstock is always the same which means the Pulley Assembly on it remains in the same position. The Headstock Pulley has limited movement on the Drive Shaft. The motor has more movement available depending on the shaft length and positioning the Motor on the mount.

I test fitted the Speed Changer with the 2" motor pulley and the 3" headstock pulley, and was able to get good alignment between headstock and Speed Changer pulleys by adding a couple of washers between the Speed Changer and the headstock (mine is missing the extended length set screw, and has a standard length set screw to hold the motor bracket rods and an additional, short bolt to hold the Speed Changer snug to the headstock - works well enough). At this point, I wasn't looking at aligning the motor pulley.

Test fit for Speed Changer with 3" headstock pulley.

While contemplating moving the motor to align the motor pulley with Speed Changer, I recalled the PO warning about the huge dust collectors in the cast ends of the motor and his attempts to reduce dust ingestion by sandwiching a plexiglas shield in the motor mount. I had hoped that I could just rotate each of the motor end castings 180º, but found that the motor shaft would not spin afterwards, so undid that change and removed the motor mount from the motor, drilled and tapped 4 new holes in the motor case and relocated the motor mount to the "top" side of the motor. In the process, I discovered that the insulation on the leads to the starting capacitor was badly degraded so I spliced in new leads. I was very pleased when the cleaned, lubed and rewired motor spun when tested with power; apparently I didn't let all the magic smoke escape. I may rewire the motor for 220V, but for a 1/2 HP motor I don't see much benefit.

While I was mucking with the wiring, I added a ground screw on the motor wiring box and a ground ring to sandwich between the power switch assembly and the headstock. Hopefully it will never be needed but it was an easy change for increased peace of mind.

After much more analysis paralysis, I decided that I wanted the speed range available using the 3" motor pulley and 4" headstock pulley, so mounted the motor to suit. I took a guess at belt lengths (PO had replaced v-belts with link-belts, both the same length) and I added an additional link to each belt. I'm still on the fence about the link-belts, they are very noisy and I wonder if they increase vibration.

Speed Changer mounted with 3" motor pulley and 4" headstock pulley. I realize that I can't change to a different speed range without shifting the motor pulley and re-tensioning the motor belt. I'm happy enough to experiment to learn which compromise is best for me.

I have the later Speed Changer floating sheave so the belt can not ride and wear the shaft. With this setup, I have a usable speed range of 0-6 on the speed setting plate - any more, and there is risk that the belts will rub on the tubular ways. I also had to shift the Speed Changer adjustment screw to the right side to prevent it rubbing the floating pulley assembly. I would prefer it on the left side to reduce conflict with the headstock locking lever, so may look into adding a washer or two to provide safe clearance from the Speed Changer sheaves when mounted on the left side.

JPG wrote:Let us not overlook the different bore sizes of the motor and drive pulley.

I don't understand what you're trying to warn us about. The different bore sizes mean that they are not interchangeable, but is there anything else to worry about? I specialize in worrying...

To end things off, my new-to-me 10E made it's own sawdust for the first time in my shop this week by drilling a straight hole in a piece of scrap. Yay!

Many thanks for your help,
-Steve

In my experience, link belts reduce vibration. They are also reported to increase pulley wear. I’ve never seen them on a 10E(R) before, but to me (as a purely aesthetic thing), they just don’t look right on a vintage machine.

curmudgeon wrote:

chapmanruss wrote:The one possible problem I see with your idea would be moving the Headstock Pulley enough to us the 3" instead of the 4" without turning the Pulleys around. I'm not sure there is enough clearance to slide the Headstock Pulley toward the Headstock without it rubbing. The Speed Changer position in relationship to the Headstock is always the same which means the Pulley Assembly on it remains in the same position. The Headstock Pulley has limited movement on the Drive Shaft. The motor has more movement available depending on the shaft length and positioning the Motor on the mount.

I test fitted the Speed Changer with the 2" motor pulley and the 3" headstock pulley, and was able to get good alignment between headstock and Speed Changer pulleys by adding a couple of washers between the Speed Changer and the headstock (mine is missing the extended length set screw, and has a standard length set screw to hold the motor bracket rods and an additional, short bolt to hold the Speed Changer snug to the headstock - works well enough). At this point, I wasn't looking at aligning the motor pulley.

Test fit for Speed Changer with 3" headstock pulley.

While contemplating moving the motor to align the motor pulley with Speed Changer, I recalled the PO warning about the huge dust collectors in the cast ends of the motor and his attempts to reduce dust ingestion by sandwiching a plexiglas shield in the motor mount. I had hoped that I could just rotate each of the motor end castings 180º, but found that the motor shaft would not spin afterwards, so undid that change and removed the motor mount from the motor, drilled and tapped 4 new holes in the motor case and relocated the motor mount to the "top" side of the motor. In the process, I discovered that the insulation on the leads to the starting capacitor was badly degraded so I spliced in new leads. I was very pleased when the cleaned, lubed and rewired motor spun when tested with power; apparently I didn't let all the magic smoke escape. I may rewire the motor for 220V, but for a 1/2 HP motor I don't see much benefit.

While I was mucking with the wiring, I added a ground screw on the motor wiring box and a ground ring to sandwich between the power switch assembly and the headstock. Hopefully it will never be needed but it was an easy change for increased peace of mind.

After much more analysis paralysis, I decided that I wanted the speed range available using the 3" motor pulley and 4" headstock pulley, so mounted the motor to suit. I took a guess at belt lengths (PO had replaced v-belts with link-belts, both the same length) and I added an additional link to each belt. I'm still on the fence about the link-belts, they are very noisy and I wonder if they increase vibration.

Speed Changer mounted with 3" motor pulley and 4" headstock pulley. I realize that I can't change to a different speed range without shifting the motor pulley and re-tensioning the motor belt. I'm happy enough to experiment to learn which compromise is best for me.

I have the later Speed Changer floating sheave so the belt can not ride and wear the shaft. With this setup, I have a usable speed range of 0-6 on the speed setting plate - any more, and there is risk that the belts will rub on the tubular ways. I also had to shift the Speed Changer adjustment screw to the right side to prevent it rubbing the floating pulley assembly. I would prefer it on the left side to reduce conflict with the headstock locking lever, so may look into adding a washer or two to provide safe clearance from the Speed Changer sheaves when mounted on the left side.

JPG wrote:Let us not overlook the different bore sizes of the motor and drive pulley.

I don't understand what you're trying to warn us about. The different bore sizes mean that they are not interchangeable, but is there anything else to worry about? I specialize in worrying...

To end things off, my new-to-me 10E made it's own sawdust for the first time in my shop this week by drilling a straight hole in a piece of scrap. Yay!

Many thanks for your help,
-Steve

That was my point. They are not simply interchangable.