Shopsmith Forums

fixit wrote:Hi Ed,

I get all three. Woodsmith, Shopnotes, and Wood. I wouldn't stop taking any of them. I have all issues of the first two but not of Wood. They all have great stuff, tips, techniques and projects. My list of projects exceeds my budget by a long shot but I'll be happily making sawdust until I die! My only real problem is starting to be finding space to store all of them.

I soon may have to start scanning and filing things on DVDs.

P.S. Forgot to say that I also REALLY enjoy using the computer unlike you and Chuck. But then I got started using them when they first came out in the early 80s and was involved with them in my Air Force jobs for many years.

Don't get me wrong I enjoy computers too. I was repairing computer main frames back in the 60's and retired programming them.
I just happen to think computers should be similar to generators, you don't have to know how a generator works to get electricity from your power company and certainly don't have to update it to make sure you can continue to get power. Computers produce data, that data should come to you in useable forms, some times over the internet, some times as DVD's and some times on the pages of magazines.
What many companies are trying to do is replace proven delivery methods with computer delivery instead of using computer to enhance the proven methods.
With improved graphic capabilities there is not excuse for using stick figure, 2 D graphics, poorly light photo's, etc commonly found in manuals and magazines. Instead they should be using computer to produce computer enhanced graphics and such to improve the magazine.

I really think Nick and Drew are on the woodworking leading edge of what can be done. We see them successfully combining video/audio, with graphic (chalk board) with instantous input via the chat room. That is using a computer to enhance data delivery. But I think they have just scratched the surface.

My cable TV is now messing with interactive communications. At times we get to vote, make comments, ask questions during a program. We can restart a show without any extra equipment like a DVR, VCR or anything else.

Wood magazine is starting to see the light and like many other mags they now have referrences in their mag where you can go on the internet to get more info, see a video, view a demo and etc. I don't see them trying to replace their magazine I see them enhance their offering.

I wonder if SS ever thought of video capturing an academy class, much like colleges are using computer to produce a video classroom. The student could take the computer out to the shop and watch and do along with the instructor. They would need a few students to act as straight men to ask questions and such. Combine that with Nicks chalkboard and Chatroom and you would have something.

When I was in computers we lead the way in self study courses, using DVD's, and video classrooms. Students could learn to actually repair computers or to program. We were telaconferencing back in the 80's and by the time I left had gotten it to point I stopped my 1-4 trips a month to one every 6-9 months or so. Saving me time away from my family and the company about 2-3 thousand dollars for every trip. I worked in a office building housing 1800 today almost 95 percent now work at home. The ofice is about 1/2 a floor of the 8 story building we use to occupy plus another 4 story building. And this is a savings in just one site. My company had hundreds of sites.

Think of the savings to SS and academy students if they didn't have to travel, they didn't have to have a physical site for the students to attend class in and etc.

There are hundreds of ways to generate business but I don't think a DVD video of is going to do it anymore.
Ed

sounds possible ed, however i don't want to watch the traveling accademy on a computer. i want to socialize and breathe the sawdust that we make. (well not actually breathe the sawdust ) but you get the idea. imho the sawdust sessions are great for one type of learning and the travelling accademy is entirely different. my complaint with shopsmith is i bought their equipment, went to the ta, expected to go to more ta's, but whoaaaaaaaaa. without any advance warning no more ta's in ne ohio. even with the east coast tour this fall i see everything is much more southeastern us and does not include anything within a reasonable distance from me. my next best hope is the national accademy in dayton. but there is a huge difference in cost between a few ta classes and a week long class in dayton. the two they did this summer were great but there was not enough advance notice for planning and to "git r done" for me. another rant for me without getting too far off topic is that as a new owner and a first time attendee at a ta i had no idea that they were more of a sales pitch for their accessories than an actual learning class. the week before the ta i made one of my largest accessory orders ever. spike the instructor really cringed in pain when we talked about it after the class as he made no commission from stuff that i could have just as easily ordered at the ta. so with no training available to me from shopsmith i joined a local woodworkers club. i'm sure you all know the reaction that i get when they find out that i use a shopsmith. however i love my shopsmith and i am learning much from them that applies to woodworking no matter what brand of tools that you use. ok i'm calmed down now, pulse seems normal. regards

Hi Bob,

bettyt44720 wrote:sounds possible ed, however i don't want to watch the traveling accademy on a computer. i want to socialize and breathe the sawdust that we make. (well not actually breathe the sawdust ) but you get the idea. imho the sawdust sessions are great for one type of learning and the travelling accademy is entirely different.

I concur completely with the above quoted sentiments.

bettyt44720 wrote: my complaint with shopsmith is i bought their equipment, went to the ta, expected to go to more ta's, but whoaaaaaaaaa. without any advance warning no more ta's in ne ohio.

That was unfortunate. I bought my 510 new, in 1995. At the time, I did knot take any TA classes: Took my first "set" of them from Rick in april of 2007.

bettyt44720 wrote: even with the east coast tour this fall i see everything is much more southeastern us and does not include anything within a reasonable distance from me.

If the already scheduled Tennessee classes are too far, maybe the upcoming (not scheduled yet) TA's in Virginia or D.C. wood work for you? Knot exactly day trips, I know, but it may be the only chance that you have for awhile.

bettyt44720 wrote: my next best hope is the national accademy in dayton. but there is a huge difference in cost between a few ta classes and a week long class in dayton. the two they did this summer were great but there was not enough advance notice for planning and to "git r done" for me.

I might be fortunate to live where they are still doing regular TA classes, but if I lived anywhere near Ohio, I wood jump at the chance for an National Academy class!

bettyt44720 wrote: another rant for me without getting too far off topic is that as a new owner and a first time attendee at a ta i had no idea that they were more of a sales pitch for their accessories than an actual learning class.

I do knot know how Spike arranged his TA's, but Rick was very instructional, reviewing all maintenance and functional operations of the Mark V and it's accessories. Yes, you can say that it is a sales pitch for the accessories, but Rick demonstrates how the Mark V can do all of the basic stuff plus a lot of unusual things, and as he does this, he adds the various accessories to the Mark V and demonstrate how they will enhance your projects.

bettyt44720 wrote: the week before the ta i made one of my largest accessory orders ever. spike the instructor really cringed in pain when we talked about it after the class as he made no commission from stuff that i could have just as easily ordered at the ta.

They do offer pretty good deals at the TA!

bettyt44720 wrote: so with no training available to me from shopsmith i joined a local woodworkers club. i'm sure you all know the reaction that i get when they find out that i use a shopsmith. however i love my shopsmith and i am learning much from them that applies to woodworking no matter what brand of tools that you use. ok i'm calmed down now, pulse seems normal. regards

IMHO, this does knot sound like a statement that you wood get from anyone attending a TA put on by Rick Davis. Anyone disagree with me?

I went to the TA here in Portland in May. It was my first one, and I really didn't feel as if it was a sales pitch. Yes, I did spend a lot, but I had already had most of it in mind when I went there. But, I thought Rick did an excellent job, teaching the class. From using the jointer, planer, sharpening, cleaning, maintenance, etc. I really got a lot out of this class.

the reason that i felt that it was more of a sales pitch rather than a class is because there were 8 people in the class and we made two picture frames. each person made one side of a frame. after ripping the stock and crosscutting it on the mark 5, we each cut the rabbit on the jointer, then we each cut a profile on the outer edge using the molding head. the we cut a profile on the inner edge using the shopsmith router table. then we cut the 45 degree angles on the mark 5 using the miter-pro. then the was a presentation about lathe tools (no cutting) then he moved on to demonstrating the bisquit joiner and finally a demonstration of the mortising attachment. the class seemed more like a demo that you might have seen at a fair or elsewhere. so in that class 8 people made 2 frames, he called them picture frames however the came out as a square rather than say an 11 x 14 picture frame. the frames did not "fit" together with 90 degree corners there are gaps. he blamed it on different people cutting the parts. the setup was not changed for each piece just a different person pushing the stock through. i believed and bought a miter-pro. it will not make a 90 degree corner either. i understand the concept of the miter-pro, however the miter-pro must have a perfect 90 degree angle regardless of a slight variation of it's relationship to the saw blade. mine and i suspect the one that spike had is not a perfect 90. if you put a square on my miter-pro there are gaps not a good 90 degree corner. in an all day class like that useing either the router table or the molding cutter should have been more than enough time for each person to make their own frame. we could have made a usable frame that should have fit together. i did learn things that day and would attend another should one come near ne ohio. i would rather have learned that the shopsmith with the miter-pro will make a good frame rather than what i have seen.

bettyt44720 wrote: i understand the concept of the miter-pro, however the miter-pro must have a perfect 90 degree angle regardless of a slight variation of it's relationship to the saw blade. mine and i suspect the one that spike had is not a perfect 90. if you put a square on my miter-pro there are gaps not a good 90 degree corner.

Have you completely dismantled your miter-pro so that you could accurately measure the machined corner bracket]1931[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]1932[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]1933[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]1934[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]1935[/ATTACH]

dusty, no i haven't taken it apart yet. i don't have a wixey yet. on my wish list though. in the first picture where your hand is i put a large framing square. over both of the extensions and it is not square. will probably have to use some shims to make it square. however for the money the miter-pro should in my opinion be square. the paper work does not include alignment instructions like it does with the mark 5. and certainly the one used in the ta should have been squared up. spike said it was because 8 different people made the parts. there was only one setup, each person pushed a board through with feather boards on the table and on the fence. the miter-pro had only one setup. the stop was never moved. the frame was/is not square.

Dear Betty,

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience at the Traveling Academy. How long ago did you attend the class?

It sounds like it was a while ago and you attended when the company only offered one type of class. There used to be several TA's traveling around the country with just as many different instructors. Each instructor did his/her class pretty much the way they wanted too. Some spent more time making sure everything worked correctly and spent time actually teaching woodworking and others focused more on the selling of accessories because they made commisions from the sales they made.

If you can attend one of the new Traveling Academy's taught by Rick Davis you will be in for treat. He has been a woodworker all his professional life (30+ yrs.), and not just with Shopsmith. He has only been with SS for only about five years now.

He offers three totally different classes. The first is basics, the second is advanced basics and the third is woodturning.

Sure, he sells SS tools, but his main focus has always been teaching you how to get the most woodworking from your tools. Hopefully, Ohio will be added to the schedule as time permits. He's suppose to travel the entire eastern and midwest states, so I'm sure it wil be scheduled sometime in the near future.

Now, back to the poll. So far, so good. Sorry to hear that some of you feel that a DVD is no help to you. But that is okay. Some people learn from different means. I like my DVD's because I can refer to a different subject when I need too and actually see the work being done instead of just a still photo. I do believe the mags and books have their place (I have quite the selection myself), but I also look at my DVD's as the electronic version of these.

As an example, if you ever tried to learn woodturning from just looking at still photos and reading a chapter in a book, good luck. You will be spending a lot of time going through the different procedures and making a lot of mistakes along the way. That is why so many woodturning books have what are called companion videos. It makes the process much easier to learn when you can see the chisels actually being used, the different angles needed, and the shavings coming off the wood.

Well, that's it for now. Thanks to everyone who has voted in the poll thus far.

Use of the Wixey is obviously not a necessity. A good square will show you what you need to know; and I believe that is to verify the accuracy of the square corner on the milled aluminum part.

I will be real surprised if it is not very nearly perfectly square.

In other words, I believe something other that this part is causing your problem

I'm sorry you didn't have a very good TA experience. The one in May with Rick Davis was excellent. He did go through alot of the tools, but spent a great deal of time explaining how to set them up, and using them. He was even sketching on an easel and a whiteboard. The first two days were like this, and I took lots of notes and a few photos. On the third day, he broke us up into two groups and we made bowls out of walnut and ash.

The other great thing about Rick, is at anytime during his demo's, if we asked a question about a certain procedure or tool, he would demonstrate the problem or whatever the question was. In some cases, he might say, we are going into that after lunch and to ask him again at that time.

If he comes to Portland again next year, I will plan on attending. Now that I have had a chance to use the SS, I'm certain I will questions that can be answered live.