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Re: How to Evaluate Air Flow w/o Instrumentation

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:52 pm
by DLB
RFGuy wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:50 pm The instrument used to measure it is called an anemometer, but you have to get one with a high enough range to measure very fast airspeeds such as a dust collector can provide. Mine cost about $130 and has come in handy for HVAC adjustments as well as evaluating dust collector performance in the shop, but not a tool most woodworkers need or will want to purchase.
What velocity range does your anemometer have? What range do you think is required? I know there are some much less expensive, as well as much more expensive, anemometers out there.

- David

Re: How to Evaluate Air Flow w/o Instrumentation

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:29 pm
by RFGuy
DLB wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:52 pm What velocity range does your anemometer have? What range do you think is required? I know there are some much less expensive, as well as much more expensive, anemometers out there.

- David
Mine goes up to 9999CFM, but this is calculated in the meter based on what aperture you specify. I believe the limiting factor is the airspeed range which is 9999CMM (cubic meters/second). Converting to Imperial, I can only measure airspeeds up to 5885.19 cubic feet/second. So, it works for my needs since I am only measuring a ShopVac or old DC-3300 in my shop. IF I had a medium->high end dust collector then it would likely be over range when measuring airspeed directly on them. I don't know if it would hold up to measuring a very high airspeed on a high end dust collector. Typically when I see those measured online, a pitot tube is used to sample the airstream rather than measuring it directly in the airstream.

Re: How to Evaluate Air Flow w/o Instrumentation

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:25 pm
by DLB
Getting back to Dusty's original question about subjective measurement, the 42" hood on the DC-3300 provides a built-in subjective indication of airflow based on how firmly the filter hood inflates. Mine does not fully/tightly inflate in any natural configuration of the DC. But how fully inflated it is is a subjective indicator. For example at the two extremes: with no hoses attached and all three ports open it is almost fully inflated. With one hose attached to some tool (I used a jointer) and the other two ports blocked it is not at all firmly inflated. Every change in between those that I make that allows more flow can be observed on the filter hood.

I don't know how well, if at all, this translates to the other filter hoods. One could try adding a weight in the middle of the hood to deflate it a bit. (This worked on the 42" but was not as clear as the hood by itself.)

In looking at this, my observations conflict a bit with the CFM statements that Jim made. Possibly because of the allegedly higher CFM resulting from the 42" hood? In any case, I can observe significantly higher airflow on my DC if I start from two hoses connected (but not connected to a tool) and then remove the plug from the third port. Significantly higher, based on firmness of inflation of the hood. Jim's data would lead me to expect no change, at least if I was using the OE hood, because max airflow (300 CFM) is already present through two hoses.

- David

Re: How to Evaluate Air Flow w/o Instrumentation

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:41 pm
by dusty
DLB wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:25 pm Getting back to Dusty's original question about subjective measurement, the 42" hood on the DC-3300 provides a built-in subjective indication of airflow based on how firmly the filter hood inflates. Mine does not fully/tightly inflate in any natural configuration of the DC. But how fully inflated it is is a subjective indicator. For example at the two extremes: with no hoses attached and all three ports open it is almost fully inflated. With one hose attached to some tool (I used a jointer) and the other two ports blocked it is not at all firmly inflated. Every change in between those that I make that allows more flow can be observed on the filter hood.

I don't know how well, if at all, this translates to the other filter hoods. One could try adding a weight in the middle of the hood to deflate it a bit. (This worked on the 42" but was not as clear as the hood by itself.)

In looking at this, my observations conflict a bit with the CFM statements that Jim made. Possibly because of the allegedly higher CFM resulting from the 42" hood? In any case, I can observe significantly higher airflow on my DC if I start from two hoses connected (but not connected to a tool) and then remove the plug from the third port. Significantly higher, based on firmness of inflation of the hood. Jim's data would lead me to expect no change, at least if I was using the OE hood, because max airflow (300 CFM) is already present through two hoses.

- David
I will give this a go tomorrow. I have a 24" hood but it should, in principle, work the same way.

I'm wondering if the same principles apply with the dust collection bags or with that opening covered all together. Not very scientific here but maybe interesting.

Re: How to Evaluate Air Flow w/o Instrumentation

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:00 pm
by dusty
My hood fully inflates but my subjective analysis tells me that when inflated it is not as tight as it used to be. Maybe my imagiation not that I am paying particular attention to it.

This discussion has brought forth another question. How does the DC-3300 actually work? Does the dust simply fall into collection bag while the air that was carrying that dust escapes through the hood?

If yes, thea I could safely close the lower opening with no adverse effect on the hood. The hood would simply inflate to whatever its maximum is.

Re: How to Evaluate Air Flow w/o Instrumentation

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:12 pm
by algale
The collection bag inflates too. So air is filling that 30 gallon plastic bag as well as the hood and escaping the hood.

Re: How to Evaluate Air Flow w/o Instrumentation

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 2:29 pm
by dusty
algale wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:12 pm The collection bag inflates too. So air is filling that 30 gallon plastic bag as well as the hood and escaping the hood.
Yes, the collection bags does inflate BUT if you gather the bag up and hold it tight turning the dust collector on produces minimal pressure on the bag.

For my subjective testing, I believe I can close that portal completely and test by simply observing the hood expansion.

This experiment has also triggered a long abandoned thought about a rigid collection container. I really do not like the collection bags.

Re: How to Evaluate Air Flow w/o Instrumentation

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:15 pm
by reible
I would think the more dust collected on inside of the bag the less air will pass through so less escaping air the fuller the bag will feel. So a bag with a lower size pass through will also lessen air flow. At some point the bag will be the controlling factor as it is just like a clogged filter. I can't say when that happens........ I would worry about the feel of the bag as a test method.

I have this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZH ... UTF8&psc=1

While not designed for dust collector system it sill works for air flow and should show the difference between systems. You may not get accurate results in terms of absolutes but for relative measurements it should work. For the less then $30 range of solutions this is a decent one.

Ed

Re: How to Evaluate Air Flow w/o Instrumentation

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:45 pm
by rpd
Matthias Wandell recently posted a video on how he had improved the resolution on one of those anemometers

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Re: How to Evaluate Air Flow w/o Instrumentation

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:18 pm
by dusty
reible wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:15 pm I would think the more dust collected on inside of the bag the less air will pass through so less escaping air the fuller the bag will feel. So a bag with a lower size pass through will also lessen air flow. At some point the bag will be the controlling factor as it is just like a clogged filter. I can't say when that happens........ I would worry about the feel of the bag as a test method.

I have this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZH ... UTF8&psc=1

While not designed for dust collector system it sill works for air flow and should show the difference between systems. You may not get accurate results in terms of absolutes but for relative measurements it should work. For the less then $30 range of solutions this is a decent one.

Ed
You are probably correct on your assessment of how the caking impacts air flow "through the hood". For these tests that won't be an issue. I just changed the collection bag and when I do that I knock most of the cake off from the inside of the hood.

I like your suggestion for an inexpensive air flow meter.