Shopsmith Forums

dusty wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:37 pm

DLB wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:12 pm IIRC Dusty mentioned, either in that other thread or one of its spinoffs, something with Double Tilt (DT) being different. A Mark 7 is DT. I also use DT but didn't see the difference. Perhaps now is the time to ask what he meant. I do know that there are at least two versions of the DT Bases, that is at least potentially relevant. Mine are the new style, outwardly identifiable by the black knob. I think there are other differences, but don't know what they are.

- David

Point me there. I was not able to find what you might be talking about.

I do consider the DT to be easier to align and I believe it is because the two end castings are "identical" (no base arm assembly and no tie bar). The way the Bench tubes are set into the castings (against identical physical stops) also contributes to simpler and more accurate alignment.

It was this one: viewtopic.php?p=288517#p288517 I didn't really understand it. For what it's worth, my DT, even my homemade one, swing very close to 90 degrees.

- David

DLB wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:10 pm

dusty wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:37 pm

DLB wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:12 pm IIRC Dusty mentioned, either in that other thread or one of its spinoffs, something with Double Tilt (DT) being different. A Mark 7 is DT. I also use DT but didn't see the difference. Perhaps now is the time to ask what he meant. I do know that there are at least two versions of the DT Bases, that is at least potentially relevant. Mine are the new style, outwardly identifiable by the black knob. I think there are other differences, but don't know what they are.

- David

Point me there. I was not able to find what you might be talking about.

I do consider the DT to be easier to align and I believe it is because the two end castings are "identical" (no base arm assembly and no tie bar). The way the Bench tubes are set into the castings (against identical physical stops) also contributes to simpler and more accurate alignment.

It was this one: viewtopic.php?p=288517#p288517 I didn't really understand it. For what it's worth, my DT, even my homemade one, swing very close to 90 degrees.

- David

We have been down this rabbit hole ad infinitum in the thread above. My question is how close is very close and why does it matter? I have not reread the thread but as I remember there was at most 1 degree off "vertical". The OP in that thread was obsessed with his way tubes being vertical compared to the bench tubes.

What difference does it make? The only thing that matters is that the quill is perpendicular to the table.

Here I come running out of the bath house and doing a cannon ball into the middle of the pool... I can't keep up with reading let alone posting. Not been a good year for our extended family.
I have not read the "other" discussion and won''t have time to.
Here is something that I do know. Not one floor out of hundreds is true flat and level. That is the reason that you do not use a level on any power tool that is on wheels... In that case you use straight edges and squares / protractors for setting them up. The only way a level is valid is if the machine sits in one exact place all of the time always in the same orientation.
Just align everything in relation to the arbor / blade. It doesn't matter if the table lines up with the ceiling or not.
*****


.

Well Farmer you missed out on all the fun of us all being previously mistaken about the 'issue'.

jsburger wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:31 pm

DLB wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:10 pm

dusty wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:37 pm

Point me there. I was not able to find what you might be talking about.

I do consider the DT to be easier to align and I believe it is because the two end castings are "identical" (no base arm assembly and no tie bar). The way the Bench tubes are set into the castings (against identical physical stops) also contributes to simpler and more accurate alignment.

It was this one: viewtopic.php?p=288517#p288517 I didn't really understand it. For what it's worth, my DT, even my homemade one, swing very close to 90 degrees.

- David

We have been down this rabbit hole ad infinitum in the thread above. My question is how close is very close and why does it matter? I have not reread the thread but as I remember there was at most 1 degree off "vertical". The OP in that thread was obsessed with his way tubes being vertical compared to the bench tubes.

What difference does it make? The only thing that matters is that the quill is perpendicular to the table.

IIRC mine swung 89.8 degrees. My shop made DT was the same. My interpretation of the other thread was that the normal range was in the vicinity of 89.5 to 90 degrees of swing, but not so many people provided theirs. Does it indicate a problem if outside that range? The parts in play are cast and the surfaces are not machined, so it ain't a precise thing, but I'd probably want to know why if I was outside 89 to 90.5 degrees. IIRC the OP in the other thread was estimated around 88.3, could not actually rotate the system being a dedicated DP. This OP is off 3/4 of a bubble. My conversion calculator doesn't do bubbles to degrees. It looks like a lot to me though.

According to the literature on a Mark, the DP has up to 58" of 'chuck to floor distance.' That implies some capability of drilling either something on the floor or something not on the main table. It's a capability I've never used, but implies an axis of rotation near normal to the floor. In my opinion.

I doubt that it matters. But if mine was outside of a normal range I'd want to know why. This thread is really just asking what is normal. If nothing else, the referenced thread corrected some misperceptions about what is normal.

- David

I can not say what is "normal". I can say what happens in my shop with my machines and/or with the spar parts assembled as a test bed.

A test bed, set up on my work bench, is what I used throughout "that thread". I never used to but I now hesitate to make changes to my 520.

BTW - a home built DT appears to work every bit as good as the real thing. The only issue I would have is pulling the hinge pin and reinserting it and I have seen a modification (on Shopsmith FB) that would eliminate that issue.

I have a torpedo level that I think is similar to the OP's. Using a Wixey, my level and his pics in an effort to quantify his error in degrees, I estimate his machine is off vertical about 1.9 degrees when in vertical mode.

- David

DLB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:50 am I have a torpedo level that I think is similar to the OP's. Using a Wixey, my level and his pics in an effort to quantify his error in degrees, I estimate his machine is off vertical about 1.9 degrees when in vertical mode.

- David

And how 'level are his bench/way tubes?

JPG wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:25 pm

DLB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:50 am I have a torpedo level that I think is similar to the OP's. Using a Wixey, my level and his pics in an effort to quantify his error in degrees, I estimate his machine is off vertical about 1.9 degrees when in vertical mode.

- David

And how 'level are his bench/way tubes?

He said earlier: " in the horizontal she is dead true." Indicating, of course, that he should buy way more expensive measurement equipment.
Kidding of course. Kind of.

- David

JPG wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:25 pm

DLB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:50 am I have a torpedo level that I think is similar to the OP's. Using a Wixey, my level and his pics in an effort to quantify his error in degrees, I estimate his machine is off vertical about 1.9 degrees when in vertical mode.

- David

And how 'level are his bench/way tubes?

Does it matter as long as he zeroes his instruments on the way tubes in horizontal and then tests in vertical? If the vertical is 90 we have expected rotation.