Shopsmith Forums

Chad and Scott are welcome to come on here and say they didn't work out this strategy together, in which case I will happily admit I was wrong on that piece of it.

My objection was to Chad re-posting the exact same videos he himself already had posted in another thread because he was dissatisfied with the level of attention they were getting and wanted to raise their profile.

Think what would happen if everyone on the forum did as Chad did and took their longest thread and decided to re-post each piece of the thread as a new individual post. The forum would become a useless mess. And that's what the forum became for several days, in my opinion.

algale wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:35 am I make no claim to being a Village Elder, moreover my comments to Chad on this subject are public.
...

+1. I also make no claim to being a Village Elder, and likewise my comments are all public. It is my opinion that Chad is identifying anyone that "don't like what I have done for one reason, or more" as a "Village Elder." In that manufactured context, I am one. For a more complete list, just review the thread entitled "Is it just me ?" under General Woodworking. If some people PM'd Chad, I support that they should keep that to themselves if they wish. I can't take very seriously an implication that there is an otherwise secret group policing the forum via private message, and that someone is calling them out but not identifying them.

Since 'Village Elder' seems to include quite a few people, I consider it offensive to further describe them (us?) as "vocal minority" and assert that they have engaged in "offensive behavior" without identifying what it was. Chad was offended, and that is regrettable. That does not, in itself, make anyone's comments offensive or excuse his own offensive behavior. I'm reasonably certain that RFGuy and bainin were offended. I am offended. And I don't see anything in any post that clearly or deliberately crossed, perhaps even approached, that line until Chad's "Now here this" post. I also couldn't find where he explained his intent or apologized, as he stated, but there were a lot of threads and I didn't look at most of them.

Some people liked, and some people did not like, this new format. Those are opinions and this is a forum. Some even changed their opinion after listening to others. My opinion, and I suspect most others, would not have seen the light of day if Chad had introduced a new thread format and only used it going forward. What brought it into the forefront for some was the creation of pages upon pages of "new" threads with old content, much of which was pay to view at the time the thread was created. It is the intent of these new threads without new content that seems to not be well explained.

- David

Doesn't anyone have any interesting Shopsmith problems? How about a new product announcement from Shopsmith that was clearly rushed out without checking the details, do we have one of those? Or how about another 10 page discussion of the precise angle of the way tubes in drill press mode because I think mine tilts further in the other direction?

Is this really all we have to talk about? How about some stories about the first thing you made on your Shopsmith? Anybody have more outdoor nature shots of teenage varmints? And what about those guys who say Shopsmiths aren't worth it and they can buy all 5 of those tools separately for the same price, they're the ones we should be complaining about.

None of the comments on this topic led me to develop a negative opinion of any forum member so far, maybe we should just stop before they do.

DLB wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:41 am

algale wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:35 am I make no claim to being a Village Elder, moreover my comments to Chad on this subject are public.
...

+1. I also make no claim to being a Village Elder, and likewise my comments are all public. It is my opinion that Chad is identifying anyone that "don't like what I have done for one reason, or more" as a "Village Elder." In that manufactured context, I am one. For a more complete list, just review the thread entitled "Is it just me ?" under General Woodworking. If some people PM'd Chad, I support that they should keep that to themselves if they wish. I can't take very seriously an implication that there is an otherwise secret group policing the forum via private message, and that someone is calling them out but not identifying them.

Since 'Village Elder' seems to include quite a few people, I consider it offensive to further describe them (us?) as "vocal minority" and assert that they have engaged in "offensive behavior" without identifying what it was. Chad was offended, and that is regrettable. That does not, in itself, make anyone's comments offensive or excuse his own offensive behavior. I'm reasonably certain that RFGuy and bainin were offended. I am offended. And I don't see anything in any post that clearly or deliberately crossed, perhaps even approached, that line until Chad's "Now here this" post. I also couldn't find where he explained his intent or apologized, as he stated, but there were a lot of threads and I didn't look at most of them.

Some people liked, and some people did not like, this new format. Those are opinions and this is a forum. Some even changed their opinion after listening to others. My opinion, and I suspect most others, would not have seen the light of day if Chad had introduced a new thread format and only used it going forward. What brought it into the forefront for some was the creation of pages upon pages of "new" threads with old content, much of which was pay to view at the time the thread was created. It is the intent of these new threads without new content that seems to not be well explained.

- David

Thanks David & Alan. I appreciate all of your efforts here. In my mind, this forum should have respectful dialog.

For those that responded on this thread, I would like them to read this post from Chad (viewtopic.php?p=295905#p295905) and tell me they think it is respectful dialog that belongs on this forum. This forum is supposed to be about having thoughtful, but respectful discussions. Discussions without the personal attacks as seen on the thread linked here. However, any time a topic gets "lively" there are a few on the forum who quickly ask everyone "to move on". Why is that? Surely if everyone is being respectful, can't we have a difference of opinion and have an actual discussion here? In my mind, it seems like we can't anymore. Hive mind has taken over. Forum members seem to prefer to shutdown all respectful discussion (and "move on") rather than to call out questionable behavior on the forum. It is a shame...

edma194 wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:59 am Doesn't anyone have any interesting Shopsmith problems? How about a new product announcement from Shopsmith that was clearly rushed out without checking the details, do we have one of those? Or how about another 10 page discussion of the precise angle of the way tubes in drill press mode because I think mine tilts further in the other direction?

Is this really all we have to talk about? How about some stories about the first thing you made on your Shopsmith? Anybody have more outdoor nature shots of teenage varmints? And what about those guys who say Shopsmiths aren't worth it and they can buy all 5 of those tools separately for the same price, they're the ones we should be complaining about.

None of the comments on this topic led me to develop a negative opinion of any forum member so far, maybe we should just stop before they do.

Now you have hurt my feelings................

Ed

We be beating a dead horse perhaps, but as one who might be referred to as a village elder(the elder part fits), I plead not guilty. My agreement re moving on has to do with no likely more positive outcome will result by continuing.

The 'issue' has been a transient event and has passed. I hope Chad will reconsider and continue to post ANY new videos as he has in the past. I consider what was then doing as of benefit to most of us.

We need to recognize the effort taken to make them happen and be appreciative.

To sum up:

1. Some liked what Chad did.

2. Others did not and and said so.

3. Feeling offended/besieged, Chad started a new thread accusing a bunch of unnamed Village Elders of being meanies and therefore he was now taking his ball and going home.

4. A bunch of people then asked Chad to stay.

5. Instead of reading what had already been said in the various threads, someone else demanded that anyone Chad might be referring to as an unidentified Village Elder better raise their hands, going so far as to suggest if enough people actually did raise their hands, that member, too, would take their ball and go home.

6. Those of us who had already spoken our piece publicly to Chad and thought this was over, then repeated what we had already said publicly in an effort to assuage the second guy who was threatening to take his ball and go home.

7. It's unclear where the second guy and his ball are now.

8. Someone else chimed in to say the whole thing was tedious and that it was a waste of time to comment at all on internal forum politics, apparently oblivious that they were thereby commenting on internal forum politics.

9. Lots of people put in their two cents.

10. Other people approvingly supported someone else's two cents by using the "+" sign followed by a number from 1 to as much as 1000.

11. Someone (me) tried to summarize all this.

12. But I don't expect this to be the last word.

13. I will not take my ball and go home.

14. Quick, someone "+ infinity + 1" me (which we all know is the highest possible number)!

reible wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:21 pm
Now you have hurt my feelings................

Ed

My most humble apologies. I had no such intent. I hope we can move on from here.

WOW, what I trip. I'm going back to trying to fix my XPS8930.

Scott here.
It saddens me that Chad felt discomfort from comments about his forum activities. I kinda liked his thinking on posting each of the videos separately, or at least grouped in threads that made sense to folks looking for that type of content.

As for Youtube monetization: In Nov 2020 YouTube changed its rules on video monetization by saying that Google would now show ads on all videos, even if their creators don’t want ads and even if the creator wasn't part of their Partner Program. We live in a mostly capitalistic country, so Youtube is free to monetize their platform anyway they want to. As for me, I had a health scare a couple years back that really shook me to the reality that I needed a plan to provide for my lovey bride of 41 years, should I be taken out of the picture. Even if we aren't going to be so grim about it, I won't have a pension or corporate retirement package to fall back on, so what can I do that is both interesting and potentially money-making? Youtube.

If we don't like sitting through commercials there are ways to watch some creator's content off Youtube, but it will involve buying our way past a paywall, and I don't know about you, but I've paid for a few of those after seeing some of their free content, only to be disappointed.

The MGR's Channel Membership came about at the same time that I noticed that every other of my videos tanked after a week or two, and that was driving down the amount Youtube was generating and sharing per thousand views. (Note that few of my videos have views measured in "thousands") It was the very week that I discovered this fact that I was invited to turn of Channel membership". So I gave it a go, and in the set-up process I saw that I could add levels, and that made sense.

I truly believe that Channel members saved the follow-up Q&A sessions for everyone, because I was about to pull the plug on them. The Q&A videos are public for all to see for at least a week, and in some cases the Channel members suggested that I keep some of them public. Doing so may have "hurt" the channel's analytics a touch, but I've always honored their wishes and have even suggested it myself a few times.

Some folks just want to support the channel, knowing that $3 a month is less than a magazine. (Have you priced Fine Woodworking lately?) Others want more, so they can have more at two more tiers, with the top level joining me monthly in an interactive Zoom meeting. I call these folks "Chairmen of the Board", which sounded like a fun play on "Board", but they've really helped me, much like a steering committee. Those meetings are recorded and the mid-tier folks have access to those recordings and all tiers have access to all the Q&A sessions.

Is all of this unfair to people who can't or don't want to pay for my work? That's not my opinion, but I get it that some folks feel that way.

As for Chad, thanks for all of your support, and chin up. Your heart was always in the right place and I appreciate you. Scott