Should I Install a New Style Idler Or My Old One?

[ACE]

Oh interesting. I applied Zoom oil to both sets of sheaves, but not to that bearing. I might do that

[chapmanruss]

Ace,

The bearings are sealed permanently lubricated types. Over time they can "dry out" and will go bad. Adding oil to them and if some seeps inside they may turn better but that is only a temporary fix. In the drive system of a Mark 5 Greenie is several bearings starting with the bearings in the motor itself. Next is the Idler Shaft bearing. Then there are 2 bearings in the Drive Sleeve Assembly and lastly a bearing in the Quill Assembly. Any of these bearings going bad will put extra work on the motor to power the Quill's Spindle. Even the belts can affect the workload put on the motor if they are old and stiff. I find it is best to check each bearing individually, except the motors at first, by removing each assembly from the Headstock. Checking the motor's bearings individually requires disassembling the motor. They should turn smoothly and freely but with a small amount of resistance created by the grease used as a lubricant. These are not figit spinners. Any bearing that doesn't turn smoothly and freely should be replaced. Since you have already been working on the motor you should have a good idea on the condition of its bearings. Hopefully that motor is still in good shape.

[ACE]

Thanks Russ.

It sounds like my issues could be a combination of several deteriorating parts of an old neglected machine. There may be a complete rebuild in my future…

I had a chance to get back in the garage today and reinstalled the idler shaft. I notice that whenever I try and turn either the quill, drive shaft (opposite the quill) or idler shaft, they all resist and spring backward. The drive belt is not attached. Almost like the poly V belt wants to rest in a certain position. If I force a revolution, things don’t return all the way back to the starting position-just to what feels like a preferred position for the poly V belt.

Does an old poly V belt sound plausible?

[JPG]

Rubber belts WILL take a 'set'. A 'set' belt causing what you described(resist/spring back )is a sign the bearings are not 'stiff'. Properly lubricated(grease) ball bearings will rotate easily, but should not spin freely as Russ mentioned. Question is, how stiff are things?

I would suggest first removing the motor belt and then proceed to test it's starting/running ability. You should be able to clearly hear the start switch mechanism both just after startup and just before stopping.

FWIW a recalcitrant start switch that does not open correctly will cause some of that bad stuff you mentioned.

[jsburger]

Rubber belts WILL take a 'set'. A 'set' belt causing what you described(resist/spring back )is a sign the bearings are not 'stiff'. Properly lubricated(grease) ball bearings will rotate easily, but should not spin freely as Russ mentioned. Question is, how stiff are things?

I would suggest first removing the motor belt and then proceed to test it's starting/running ability. You should be able to clearly hear the start switch mechanism both just after startup and just before stopping.

FWIW a recalcitrant start switch that does not open correctly will cause some of that bad stuff you mentioned.

recalcitrant

Haven't heard that word in a long time!

[JPG]

Sorta like malingering!

[ACE]

Thanks JPG,

So I can clearly hear the start switch click shortly after motor start and shortly after I turn the motor switch off (and momentum slows enough). It doesn't sound like a start switch to me unless you have another idea?

I did, however, realize I was running through an extension cord. Yesterday, I plugged the headstock straight into the wall and was surprised to find the motor turning while everything else stayed still. What I mean is that the motor turns and the belts and shafts do not. It's a new drive belt. I'm wondering what would happen if I remove the poly V. Would the motor then turn the poly V shaft? I'm also suspicious of HOW I am installing the drive belt. Perhaps I'm doing it incorrectly and it is getting stuck in the recesses in the middle of the sheaves?

One question that keeps coming to me is how loose should the bearings be? I also saw another post where someone simply loosened their poly V and things started moving. Perhaps I could try that?

The replacement motor show no signs of concern I know of. No smoke, strange noises, or inconsistent output.

[DLB]

...One question that keeps coming to me is how loose should the bearings be? I also saw another post where someone simply loosened their poly V and things started moving. Perhaps I could try that?
...

First things first. You mentioned earlier that this was a Greenie, so it would have started life with a Gilmer belt and drive, not Poly V. It is possibly 'upgraded' to Poly V. Tensioning the two types is different. Do you know for sure which you have?

From SS FAQs:
How do I know if I have a Poly V Belt or Gilmer Belt?
Gilmer Belt - Inside splines run across the belt like a tank track
Poly V Belt - Inside splines run around the same direction as the belt

Either way, if your motor is spinning and nothing else is, it is possible that you are losing lower belt (V-Belt) tension. Tension is maintained by the large spring on the motor shaft at all floating sheave positions. Lubrication of the motor shaft is important for this, the floating sheave should move freely on the shaft with the exception of the spring tension. If the floating sheave sticks or binds, the spring may be unable to maintain tension at some or all speeds. IIWM this is where I would start, old machines tend to get pretty gummed up. Especially the early machines where there are no lubrication holes in the floating and control sheaves.

- David

[rpd]

Some thoughts.
Where did you get the new lower belt. The belt needs to be a minimum of 1/2" wide, belts from an auto parts store are usually slightly less.
Does the moving sheave on the motor move freely for the full range. If it is binding the spring will be unable to take up the slack and the belt will slip.

[dusty]

Bearings don't cost that much. I would suggest doing a "complete" bearing over haul (including the motors) and then moving on from there.

I believe that Grand Dad would be proud.

By the time you complete that list you will have learned a lot, a whole lot.